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Racing Weight according to Sutton
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http://www.triathlon.competitor.com/...weight-debate_112766

"If you’re an Ironman and look in the mirror without a shirt and can see every muscle my advice is this: Get in the car so you don’t burn too many calories, take yourself to the nearest supermarket and stock up on chocolate and ice cream. If you can see a chiselled six pack when you’re not exercising then a cheesecake is a must as you are already seriously redlining it."

That actually made me laugh a little.

The article was writtin by Sutton in response to an article Macca wrote a while back. They both advise that being heavier is better for ironmans, whereas being close to "fighting weight" is much more important for short course. It makes sense.

I'm interested in how this applies to the general AG population. Do you feel this is true? Do you race better if you follow this advice? Do you run an ironman better if you're a little heavier than short course weight?

I've been thinking about adding a little weight in my buildup to an IM. It may only be a few pounds, and I'll aim to get down to race weight a little closer to the race, but if it helps with recovery and maintaining strength for specific workouts, then that's probably a route I'd like to take.
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Re: Racing Weight according to Sutton [d00d] [ In reply to ]
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The general AG population will read this as an excuse to race at 190lbs @ 6 feet tall, and that will be wrong.

His advice is aimed at people who look like Chrissie Welllington:


If you look like that, you are in danger of bonking or getting sick, or setting legendary records that will never be broken.

So, you might want a cheese cake.

d00d wrote:
http://www.triathlon.competitor.com/2015/02/nutrition/brett-suttons-take-racing-weight-debate_112766

"If you’re an Ironman and look in the mirror without a shirt and can see every muscle my advice is this: Get in the car so you don’t burn too many calories, take yourself to the nearest supermarket and stock up on chocolate and ice cream. If you can see a chiselled six pack when you’re not exercising then a cheesecake is a must as you are already seriously redlining it."

That actually made me laugh a little.

The article was writtin by Sutton in response to an article Macca wrote a while back. They both advise that being heavier is better for ironmans, whereas being close to "fighting weight" is much more important for short course. It makes sense.

I'm interested in how this applies to the general AG population. Do you feel this is true? Do you race better if you follow this advice? Do you run an ironman better if you're a little heavier than short course weight?

I've been thinking about adding a little weight in my buildup to an IM. It may only be a few pounds, and I'll aim to get down to race weight a little closer to the race, but if it helps with recovery and maintaining strength for specific workouts, then that's probably a route I'd like to take.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Racing Weight according to Sutton [d00d] [ In reply to ]
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No! I don't agree. From an experiment of one I know that lower body fat is better for endurance athletes. Look at any successful triathlete long or short course.

When I first started doing marathons if I saw a chubby-ish person in front of me I would say why in the world am I behind them and it would motivate me to pick it up.
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Re: Racing Weight according to Sutton [Ty] [ In reply to ]
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Ty wrote:
No! I don't agree. From an experiment of one I know that lower body fat is better for endurance athletes. Look at any successful triathlete long or short course.

When I first started doing marathons if I saw a chubby-ish person in front of me I would say why in the world am I behind them and it would motivate me to pick it up.

I think the perspective is off. Almost every Age Grouper is going to be in the position of "get as lean as possible". That will put them at where Sutton is thinking is best. His advice to be a little heavier for long course vs short course is for the pros trying to race at 6%BF and his recommendation is to go a little higher than that.

This isn't an excuse for AGers to eat cheesecake. Us mere mortals still want to get lighter.
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Re: Racing Weight according to Sutton [noofus] [ In reply to ]
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This^ Compared to the pro's the vast majority of Age Groupers have a lot of weight to lose.
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Re: Racing Weight according to Sutton [d00d] [ In reply to ]
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You cannot compare age group and pros, well most age groupers. Age groupers need to carry more fat since we typically have more stress in our lives. Get to low in BF you tend to get sick or tired throughout the day. I do think you need to find that bottom limit and get just above it. For me I know when I got to 158 I was tired in my normal life, went back up to 161-162 and everything was normal again.

But yeah most AGs are well beyond their idea race weight. You see tons of people that have $10k bikes but have too much of a gut to even fit the bike properly. Even if you told them I don't think they would believe you how much faster they would be if they lost weight. Most do the workouts and think they can eat whatever they want. Or eat more sugar than a kid on Halloween.
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Re: Racing Weight according to Sutton [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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Yup. I may be considered skinny by the general population but at 5'10'' and 158lbs I'm fat for the fast endurance folks
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Re: Racing Weight according to Sutton [d00d] [ In reply to ]
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My excuse for eating cheesecake? It's cheesecake, what more excuse do i need?
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Re: Racing Weight according to Sutton [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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And Sutton uses the argument of adding 6lb to a 181lb dude who at that weight was probably less than 6% BF, how similar to 99.9% of most triathletes (and first world people in general) is that BF point? Never have I read a more misguided article.

Jack



"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
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Re: Racing Weight according to Sutton [d00d] [ In reply to ]
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The average age group athlete is already too fat.

They should learn to put down the ice cream, stop stopping at starbucks to reward themselves for their workout and learn to eat less before worrying about this article.

This article, imo, applies to maybe 1 in 10 triathletes

Brian Stover USAT LII
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Re: Racing Weight according to Sutton [CPT Chaos] [ In reply to ]
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CPT Chaos wrote:
And Sutton uses the argument of adding 6lb to a 181lb dude who at that weight was probably less than 6% BF, how similar to 99.9% of most triathletes (and first world people in general) is that BF point? Never have I read a more misguided article.

Jack

Right - he is talking about going from 6% to 9%. If that isn't your situation, this article doesn't apply. Which is practically everybody, with very small exception.

An article written for 1% of the triathlon population
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Re: Racing Weight according to Sutton [kollac] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
but at 5'10'' and 158lbs I'm fat for the fast endurance folks

Notable other "fat, fast endurance folks"

Sebastien Kienle: 5'11", 160 lbs
Ben Hoffman: 5'10", 158 lbs
Cyril Viennot:5’10” 163lbs

I think you'll be ok.

Source


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Re: Racing Weight according to Sutton [kollac] [ In reply to ]
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kollac wrote:
Yup. I may be considered skinny by the general population but at 5'10'' and 158lbs I'm fat for the fast endurance folks

Oh my gosh....what about being 5'10" and 208lbs?
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Re: Racing Weight according to Sutton [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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100% agree! Very few AG athletes are remotely close to their optimum race weight

desert dude wrote:

The average age group athlete is already too fat.

They should learn to put down the ice cream, stop stopping at starbucks to reward themselves for their workout and learn to eat less before worrying about this article.

This article, imo, applies to maybe 1 in 10 triathletes
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Re: Racing Weight according to Sutton [d00d] [ In reply to ]
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Surprised Sutton did not point out Chris McDonald since he seems to race around 180, believe he is 6'3" or so.
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Re: Racing Weight according to Sutton [OkotoksLawyer] [ In reply to ]
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OkotoksLawyer wrote:

Quote:
but at 5'10'' and 158lbs I'm fat for the fast endurance folks


Notable other "fat, fast endurance folks"

Sebastien Kienle: 5'11", 160 lbs
Ben Hoffman: 5'10", 158 lbs
Cyril Viennot:5’10” 163lbs

I think you'll be ok.

Source


So this is interesting... I did a quick calculation of weight to height ratios... as well as BMI for these guys (just to have a metric) and myself. I am 5'7" 147, puts me on the smaller end of "weight to height" ratio but just on the higher end of BMI (Viennot has a higher BMI than I do, everyone else is slightly lower). If I were to use these guys as a guideline I should try to cut between 5 and 6lbs and race around 141.

Is it worth me trying to cut 6lbs? I don't know.
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Re: Racing Weight according to Sutton [noofus] [ In reply to ]
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I guess the question is, define "worth it".

That being said, if you do a search on the main page for the old Kona run to 10s and 15s they give the height and weight for all of them which might get you a little closer picture for guys closer to your size. Frankly, I cherry picked these guys as close to that poster's size. For example, Crowie was listed on there as 5'11", 147 lbs!
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Re: Racing Weight according to Sutton [kollac] [ In reply to ]
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kollac wrote:
Yup. I may be considered skinny by the general population but at 5'10'' and 158lbs I'm fat for the fast endurance folks

Not even close.......you need to eat a burger and fries immediately!

"I would definitely smell her seat after a century ride"
Rappstar wrote:
That might be the post of the year right there.
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Re: Racing Weight according to Sutton [OkotoksLawyer] [ In reply to ]
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OkotoksLawyer wrote:
I guess the question is, define "worth it".

That being said, if you do a search on the main page for the old Kona run to 10s and 15s they give the height and weight for all of them which might get you a little closer picture for guys closer to your size. Frankly, I cherry picked these guys as close to that poster's size. For example, Crowie was listed on there as 5'11", 147 lbs!


I ran the numbers for all 15 guys in that list. I could get down to Kienle's BMI cutting 5lbs. I'll go poking around for past top-10s and see who else is my height-ish
Last edited by: noofus: Feb 26, 15 12:34
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Re: Racing Weight according to Sutton [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
The general AG population will read this as an excuse to race at 190lbs @ 6 feet tall, and that will be wrong.


I'm 6'1, 190 pounds, low body fat and am competitive at most NC races.

My body weight barely fluctuates. You can be tall and race well. Sure, I could lost some more weight...but the lowest I've ever gotten was 180

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Last edited by: BryanD: Feb 26, 15 12:31
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Re: Racing Weight according to Sutton [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
jackmott wrote:
The general AG population will read this as an excuse to race at 190lbs @ 6 feet tall, and that will be wrong.


I'm 6'1, 190 pounds, low body fat and am very competitive at most NC races.

My body weight barely fluctuates. You can be tall and race well

Of course, and this may be the best weight for you to race at given the totality of your life goals.

BUT...if you wanted, as your only goal, to rip off the fastest race time you possibly could, with no other considerations...you could probably lose 20lbs and go a lot faster.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Racing Weight according to Sutton [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
The general AG population will read this as an excuse to race at 190lbs @ 6 feet tall, and that will be wrong.

You rang?
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Re: Racing Weight according to Sutton [fishgo] [ In reply to ]
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fishgo wrote:
jackmott wrote:
The general AG population will read this as an excuse to race at 190lbs @ 6 feet tall, and that will be wrong.

You rang?

Just think of the 2s per mile per pound rule of thumb!

No idea if that applies to ironman runs at all, but if it is even 1/4 true...



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Racing Weight according to Sutton [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
fishgo wrote:
jackmott wrote:
The general AG population will read this as an excuse to race at 190lbs @ 6 feet tall, and that will be wrong.


You rang?


Just think of the 2s per mile per pound rule of thumb!

No idea if that applies to ironman runs at all, but if it is even 1/4 true...

The "target" race weight is 175, so let's envision a 30-sec/mi increase without additional effort. Summer race season starts May 15 and ends Sept 12. Too bad there are so many beer-and-chip daily sessions and only a handful of races to actually test that theory.
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Re: Racing Weight according to Sutton [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:

The average age group athlete is already too fat.

They should learn to put down the ice cream, stop stopping at starbucks to reward themselves for their workout and learn to eat less before worrying about this article.

This article, imo, applies to maybe 1 in 10 triathletes


But that's why we do Tri, at least it's why I do.
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