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Race tires for dirt roads
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Think Battenkill. Last year I ran GP4K 25's, and was quite happy. However, the clearance on my bike is so minimal that after a month or so both the front and rear had expanded to the point where there was frame rub.

I think that the GP4K 25's are pretty chunky even for 25's. So what recommendations do people have for a solid 25mm race tire that would ideally be just a little more narrow (and less tall) than the GP4K?

In particular I'm curious about the new spesh s works cotton 24, but aside from Tom A I'm not sure if anyone has any experience with these yet?


--
When I channel my hate to productive, I don't find it hard to impress
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Re: Race tires for dirt roads [JFromTheBlock] [ In reply to ]
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I'd change frames and keep previous tyres or fit 28mm tyres.....

Compromising tyres is the last thing i'd ever do..... right tool for the job an all that.....
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Re: Race tires for dirt roads [JFromTheBlock] [ In reply to ]
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JFromTheBlock wrote:
Think Battenkill. Last year I ran GP4K 25's, and was quite happy. However, the clearance on my bike is so minimal that after a month or so both the front and rear had expanded to the point where there was frame rub.
Tires expand over time?


http://www.jt10000.com/
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Re: Race tires for dirt roads [shadwell] [ In reply to ]
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That is certainly the "no-limits" type of response, but I like my frame and most of us are stuck optimizing what have, most of the time.


--
When I channel my hate to productive, I don't find it hard to impress
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Re: Race tires for dirt roads [JFromTheBlock] [ In reply to ]
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How dirt roady is this (I have no idea what Battenkill is like). A whole race on dirt roads or just a small section? If it is a whole race on dirt roads you don't need to worry so much about RR do you?

Ian
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Re: Race tires for dirt roads [JFromTheBlock] [ In reply to ]
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JFromTheBlock wrote:
Think Battenkill. Last year I ran GP4K 25's, and was quite happy. However, the clearance on my bike is so minimal that after a month or so both the front and rear had expanded to the point where there was frame rub.

I think that the GP4K 25's are pretty chunky even for 25's. So what recommendations do people have for a solid 25mm race tire that would ideally be just a little more narrow (and less tall) than the GP4K?

In particular I'm curious about the new spesh s works cotton 24, but aside from Tom A I'm not sure if anyone has any experience with these yet?

I ran the same set up on my bike and I was "fine"... I will bring another rear tire next year in case conditions are like what we had this year.

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
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Re: Race tires for dirt roads [jt10000] [ In reply to ]
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jt10000 wrote:
JFromTheBlock wrote:
Think Battenkill. Last year I ran GP4K 25's, and was quite happy. However, the clearance on my bike is so minimal that after a month or so both the front and rear had expanded to the point where there was frame rub.
Tires expand over time?

Yes, they do.
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Re: Race tires for dirt roads [JFromTheBlock] [ In reply to ]
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Are you talking about the Conti 4000s II's? This is relativity speaking a "tall" tire. From the aero-gurus on here, I'm told this is one of the key reasons for this tire testing so well for aerodynamics with certain rims.

I run 700 x 25's on my bike ( Cervelo R3) and width wise, there is lot's of room, but under the fork crown on my 3T Funda fork, there is not a heck of a lot of clearance. I have been told that this 3T fork was really only meant to accommodate 23mm tires.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Race tires for dirt roads [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
jt10000 wrote:
JFromTheBlock wrote:
Think Battenkill. Last year I ran GP4K 25's, and was quite happy. However, the clearance on my bike is so minimal that after a month or so both the front and rear had expanded to the point where there was frame rub.
Tires expand over time?

Yes, they do.

Either that, or my frame has shrunk :-)


--
When I channel my hate to productive, I don't find it hard to impress
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Re: Race tires for dirt roads [JFromTheBlock] [ In reply to ]
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I did both the cat 2 Battenkill and Pro/1/2 Cone Azalia in 2012. Cone Azalia is in Michigan, has slightly rougher roads, and is dead flat and windy.

I used Hutchinson Fusions (2 and 3) 700x23 tires for both races. I had them mounted on a Dura Ace aluminum wheelset, set up tubeless, with about 2oz of Stan's sealant each. If I remember correctly, I ran around 95psi.

At Battenkill I finished the race with bad sidewall damage on the front tire. It was still holding air and did not affect race performance, so it gave me faith in the tire. If I were doing those races again, I wouldn't consider riding anything else.

After pinching 2 tubes in the first lap of Cone Azalia 2010 (95psi) , I was not riding tubes during a dirt road race again. I race around 160 lbs, so weight wasn't the issue.

Hope this helps.

-Physiojoe

-Physiojoe
Instagram: @thephysiojoe
Cycling coach, Elite racer on Wooster Bikewerks p/b Wootown Bagels
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Re: Race tires for dirt roads [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
Are you talking about the Conti 4000s II's? This is relativity speaking a "tall" tire. From the aero-gurus on here, I'm told this is one of the key reasons for this tire testing so well for aerodynamics with certain rims.

I run 700 x 25's on my bike ( Cervelo R3) and width wise, there is lot's of room, but under the fork crown on my 3T Funda fork, there is not a heck of a lot of clearance. I have been told that this eTa fork was really only meant to accommodate 23mm tires.

Yup, I think I might have the same fork as you. It's a 3T on a cervelo slc-sl. It was fine for 1000 miles or so before I noticed a slight rub, once per revolution. Definitely more of a height issue than one of width.


--
When I channel my hate to productive, I don't find it hard to impress
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Re: Race tires for dirt roads [JFromTheBlock] [ In reply to ]
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The Specialized Turbo Cotton in 700X24 is a super nice, comfortable 320 TPI tire which from what your describing might be your best bet. I hope to do that race one day.
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Re: Race tires for dirt roads [JFromTheBlock] [ In reply to ]
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tubular tires with sealant would be a nice setup if you have an old set of training wheels. Something like a conti gatorskin 25 would be good. the clincher version of that tire is too slow to race on though.

my understanding is the latex tubes help reduce the pinch flat tendency in clinchers but I have no first hand experience with them

Shame you can't mooch a cross bike off someone and just run a 28 size clincher at 85 psi
Last edited by: jroden: Dec 15, 14 9:31
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Re: Race tires for dirt roads [JFromTheBlock] [ In reply to ]
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JFromTheBlock wrote:
Think Battenkill. Last year I ran GP4K 25's, and was quite happy. However, the clearance on my bike is so minimal that after a month or so both the front and rear had expanded to the point where there was frame rub.

I think that the GP4K 25's are pretty chunky even for 25's. So what recommendations do people have for a solid 25mm race tire that would ideally be just a little more narrow (and less tall) than the GP4K?

In particular I'm curious about the new spesh s works cotton 24, but aside from Tom A I'm not sure if anyone has any experience with these yet?

You may want to also consider the IRC RoadLite tubeless in either 23C or 25C. On wider rims they measure quite a bit larger (I measured the 25C at 26.8mm wide when mounted to a Zipp 101). Orange Seal sealant seems to work fairly well too.

I think I'll be running that 25C front and back on my old aluminum Soloist for the 2015 Spy Belgian Waffle Ride.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Race tires for dirt roads [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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I was thinking of using the 28mm conti gp 4 season clincher tire on some Hed ardennes for the Belgian waffle ride. Do you think they are a good rolling tire? I'm not sure how much pavement is on this years course but I hope they still roll good & nice on the pavement sections.

I also have a brand new set of panaracer gravelking 28mm that I'm pondering possible using.

Is the 2015 course the same as 2013? I did it in 2013 and it was pretty awesome

"I swim because that's how I get to ride my bike."

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Re: Race tires for dirt roads [JFromTheBlock] [ In reply to ]
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I like pro3races in 25mm (with latex tubes of course). They measure a bit over 27mm, so it could be a tight fit.

For rougher gravel, I'll use my Crux 'cross bike with compass stampede ELs, 32mm.

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Re: Race tires for dirt roads [Dopers.Suck] [ In reply to ]
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The Vittoria Pave 24mm works great on gravel/dirt. The 27mm is even better if you have clearance.
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Re: Race tires for dirt roads [OldnFat] [ In reply to ]
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My frame could fit the 27mm vittoria so maybe I'll need to look into those. I wonder what the puncture protection is like on them?

"I swim because that's how I get to ride my bike."

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Re: Race tires for dirt roads [Dopers.Suck] [ In reply to ]
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Very good for a 'racier' tire. Not as good as a heavy duty training tire. That said, I've ridden a lot of miles on dirt/gravel with them and flats have been minimal. IMO, line choice and not hitting things hard helps the most in preventing flats on dirt/gravel. The Pave is a favorite of mine for being relatively tough and relatively fast.

Dopers.Suck wrote:
My frame could fit the 27mm vittoria so maybe I'll need to look into those. I wonder what the puncture protection is like on them?
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Re: Race tires for dirt roads [Dopers.Suck] [ In reply to ]
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Dopers.Suck wrote:
I was thinking of using the 28mm conti gp 4 season clincher tire on some Hed ardennes for the Belgian waffle ride. Do you think they are a good rolling tire? I'm not sure how much pavement is on this years course but I hope they still roll good & nice on the pavement sections.

I also have a brand new set of panaracer gravelking 28mm that I'm pondering possible using.

Is the 2015 course the same as 2013? I did it in 2013 and it was pretty awesome

Don't know about those tires and I'm pretty sure the course changes every year.

That said, I did the 2013 route with a 23C Conti GP4000S on the back and a 23C Challenge Criterium on the front of my aluminum Soloist and did just fine in the dirt and gravel sections. There's a LOT of road on the route typically.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Race tires for dirt roads [Dopers.Suck] [ In reply to ]
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"Is the 2015 course the same as 2013? I did it in 2013 and it was pretty awesome"

Different course. A little longer and less climbing. With the course profile, (the last ~15 miles is mostly downhill on pavement until the final short(ish) climb to the finish), I'd not want a clunky tire. The last 3 years I've run GP4000s or PR2s in 23c w/out issues on an alu soloist. If I were doing the race this year, I'd do the same.



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Re: Race tires for dirt roads [JFromTheBlock] [ In reply to ]
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I'd run the biggest high quality tubeless tires you can fit in your frame. Bontrager R3 or R2, the 23 is more like a 24 on wider rims. IRC Race-Lite 23 tubeless, I use the 25c version (which measures more like 27mm) a lot. I did a Rapha Gentleman's race (60% dirt/rocks near Boulder) this year on them at 60-65psi, as did one of my teammates. No problems.

I used to use Schwalbe One tubeless, but they cut pretty easily and have no advantages over the Bontragers or IRCs. Hutchinson are shit.

For racing on dirt, the ability to run lower pressure is more important than the tire itself, especially since you're size-limited by your frame. With a tubed clincher, you'll have to run >110psi so as not to pinch flat. You can run a tubeless tire anywhere from ~60psi on up. The added cushioning and traction on dirt sections are worth it, and no worries about pinching. Add sealant and you're also more immune to flats from small objects.

Tubulars would do a lot of this for you as well, and be lighter, but I'm hearing you prefer clincher and don't want to buy a new wheelset. The tubeless will also double as training tires, so you can race on the same setup you train on.
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Re: Race tires for dirt roads [OldnFat] [ In reply to ]
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OldnFat wrote:
Very good for a 'racier' tire. Not as good as a heavy duty training tire. That said, I've ridden a lot of miles on dirt/gravel with them and flats have been minimal. IMO, line choice and not hitting things hard helps the most in preventing flats on dirt/gravel. The Pave is a favorite of mine for being relatively tough and relatively fast.


If you've got some secret for picking the smoothest line while in a 150 rider peloton, please enlighten me.

There aren't drafting penalties in my sport :)

-Physiojoe

-Physiojoe
Instagram: @thephysiojoe
Cycling coach, Elite racer on Wooster Bikewerks p/b Wootown Bagels
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Re: Race tires for dirt roads [Physiojoe925] [ In reply to ]
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Physiojoe925 wrote:
OldnFat wrote:
Very good for a 'racier' tire. Not as good as a heavy duty training tire. That said, I've ridden a lot of miles on dirt/gravel with them and flats have been minimal. IMO, line choice and not hitting things hard helps the most in preventing flats on dirt/gravel. The Pave is a favorite of mine for being relatively tough and relatively fast.



If you've got some secret for picking the smoothest line while in a 150 rider peloton, please enlighten me.

There aren't drafting penalties in my sport :)

-Physiojoe

especially going down at full speed lol

good luck picking "the perfect line" lol

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
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Re: Race tires for dirt roads [Physiojoe925] [ In reply to ]
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Physiojoe925 wrote:
OldnFat wrote:
Very good for a 'racier' tire. Not as good as a heavy duty training tire. That said, I've ridden a lot of miles on dirt/gravel with them and flats have been minimal. IMO, line choice and not hitting things hard helps the most in preventing flats on dirt/gravel. The Pave is a favorite of mine for being relatively tough and relatively fast.



If you've got some secret for picking the smoothest line while in a 150 rider peloton, please enlighten me.

There aren't drafting penalties in my sport :)

-Physiojoe

Yep, I'll echo this. Bigger tires are an insurance policy in a peloton with little to no ground visibility many times.

What I tell my teammates for tire choice for dirt/gravel racing is that, "it's all about pressure until it's about volume".

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