Good question. I have no answer for you. This is why: At the FIST clinic one of the topics on the agenda was what to charge people for a fit. I posted on this forum from Xantusia while we were in that discussion as a "market survey" to see what the general slowtwitcher consensus was. It sounded like $100-150 was acceptable to most people. However, when it came time to define exactly what you GET for the $100-150 then it became more complex. In a previous post (Fit Information: Dangerous in the wrong hands)it surfaced that I am a bad man, troll, unmitigated asshole, social deviant, etc. for not giving people the hard fought fruits of 23 years of labor in the bike business: My fit processes. People wanted the measurements when they left for $150, and frankly, I am afraid to give them to them because I don't want them to use them to buy a bike elsewhere, misuse the data to "size themsleves" or try to steal our process (one place is already attempting a somewhat laughable attempt at it). Bottom line: Fitting is free if I do a bunch of work on your bike and you spend money in here. Here's a couple illustrations of how it is working:

Example 1: Person comes in and says "I want to buy a bike." We measure and fit them, sell them the bike, they pay for it, we build it, position them on it, set-up their pedals, cleats, give them a little "coaching" and help them load it up. Full service, included with bike purchase, no additional charge.

Example 2: Person comes in and says "I want to buy a bike."
We measure and fit them, they say "I'm just gathering information and shopping right now- may I buy the data from you for $150?" No, you can't. It is a part of our "intellectual inventory". You want it, buy a bike here. You go somewhere else- use thier "fit process". Straight deal.

Example 3: Person comes in with existing bike, "I need help with my fit." Their bike fit and position is pretty close to correct, but needs work- mostly a trained hand and second set of eyes. We adjust saddle position, bar position, switch a couple saddles maybe, adjust their cleats. Done. Big improvement. How much do we charge? Hmmm, tough question... We'll say $20-60 depending on time spent and degree of difficulty. If it were an excellent customer or solid referral we may charge nothing at all. On a busy day in May when we have 17 fit appointments in one day- $60 minimum (where were you in January?).
Example 4: Person comes in with existing bike: "My bike doesn't seem to fit..." The bike is all jacked out of shape: Wrong cranks, stem, bars, pedals and saddle. Bingo! :) $$$$$ We just sold $600 worth of stuff at high profit margins and another $100 worth of labor to install it all. $150 on top of that for the fit? Maybe in New York City, Chicago or L.A.
Not here in Ford Country. A $700 fit session in parts and labor is a good sale.

So that is how we are doing it right now. OK, let me have it.....

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

tom maybe this is a stupid question - why would anybody NEED your fit numbers on their fit ?? i mean, they have the bike, don't they? why don't they just take it home and whip out a tape measure and get the numbers on where in space you put them ? this seems so easy as to be a complete no brainer - are people THAT helpless re: how they are sitting on their bikes ??

Never, ever, underestimate a person's ability to screw up the simpliest task. If we want something done right (our bike fits) we do it here ourselves. That's why are fits are good, and why I will never be a millionaire or have a store any bigger than this little room. I gave an example of a guy last week who somehow managed to get out of here with enough information to say erroneously "I was fit by Tom Demerly" and he bought a bike elsewhaere. Wrong bike, wrong size, bad position, wrong fit. The guy who saw him onthe bike (in another store)is an acredited engineer and works full-time in the bike industry and is a category 1 racer. I respect his opinion and learn things from him. He told me the guy's fit and bike selection were "jacked". the guy was running around town saying "Tom Demerly fit me! look how cool this is!" Trouble is, it wasn't cool. The guy didn't realize it, but he was on the wrong type, size, model and geometry of bike. I didn't make that recommendation. He did himself (or another shop). I'm not taking the blame for that. I can only be accountable for my own mistakes. And I make enough of them (being human) that that keeps me pleanty busy. I don't have time and energy for other people's mistakes made under my "brand name".

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

hmmmm. i see what you mean. in that case maybe you would be a fool to give out numbers, as you use them. still, it is fairly surprising to me that people could not sketch out a bike, measure where you put things, and write down the pertinant relationships between the various contact points and frame dimensions and all. i mean if it means enuf to a guy to bother doing it you would think it would mean enuf that said dude would see to it that he did it correctly. it's not really rocket science. interesting.

Tom,

I think your prices for the cases above all sound very reasonable. There is no one price just like there is no one bike for all. It all depends on the situation. I would almost suggest you post your examples in your store or on a handout when someone questions how much a fit would cost.

Jeff S.

Tom, I bought my P2K from a local lbs, The Spokesman, whose owner, Steve Sperier, is going to the next FIST session. A friend of mine couldn't get right on his bike so I went with him to Bicycle Sports in Shreveport to get fitted with him. Dave Bunce ran into problems with my friends fit and had to call in John Cobb to get everything right. It took them about an hour or a little over to get him fitted. For me they adusted the seat and aerobars and that how I've been riding ever since. They did not give me my measurements but I did my own. To expand on what t-t-n wrote, I could not justify an 8 hour round trip everytime I changed seats or pedal systems. By the way, my 15 minutes and my friend's hour plus both cost $100(April 2002), although, he bought a stem.

Bob Sigerson

Tom,

THANK YOU for coming back to reason!!! For a while it sounded like you would be charging way more than an hour or so is worth. I was interested in coming down for a fit, and i think i fit example 3. Need about 1 or 2 things changed that will take very little time, and was thinking wow....$150 bucks for that little time sucks!!!

Anyway, i understand the thing about the processes, it makes sense to not give away your process, but there are situations, such as people travelling with a bike, putting new parts on, etc that may require SOME numbers in order to achieve a fit that you have done for them already.

It may be a shrewd buisness plan, ie, if you buy the aerobars, seatpost, etc from US, then we will refit you on it for free, but unless people can get the prices that they can find elsewhere (ie discount internet, etc) then i find it highly unlikely that they will return to the store, and probably will measure themselves. (im talking like $50 saved type of thing, or if someone lives 5+ hours away...it becomes unfeasible)

Just my $0.02

Thanks,



-Kevin

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"Anyone can work hard when they want to; Champions do it when they don't."

Very nice, straight shooting, just the way I like it. I should have traveled just a bit farther north on my second fit. FWIW, if I had come and you saw that I was on the wrong bike, wrong size, for what I was doing, and you told me so, I would not have liked it, but I would have appreciated it. Not knowing you personally would have factored into the decision... is he just trying to sell me a bike? That's to be expected, and as the consumer I've got to deal with it.

I spent $30 on my first fit, 2.5 hrs of wasted time, with a local guy with a good reputation.

2nd fit was with a guy with a quasi national reputation, solid credentials, $125.00 for about 4hrs. He may have knew I was on the wrong bike (OCLV) but he did not share the news. Ended up with a 130mm stem, fwd seat post, long C-2's. Talk about being over the front hub. I lived with it for 2 IM's then sold it.

Finally got it done right on a new bike, 3rd time was the charm. What a difference. Worth the trial and error it took to get to that place.

Getting the truth straight is a gift. Even if it hurts.

There is a lot of info on bike fit on the net, and not just on this site. It's really a matter of time to reseach it, sort it out, catalogue, throw out the nonsense and then appy it in a rational logical system. There is no reason why a motivated individual can't fit their own bike properly if they have an inclination for it. However, I'm convinced that to do this research properly it does take a bit of time as well as having a basic understanding of anatomy/biomechnics helps to do it properly. For many people it's just a matter of finding it more convenient to have a fit done by someone else. If that's the case then they should expect to pay a fee for service. If Tom did this for me I wouldn't expect his measurements written down on a prescription pad. I'm quite capable of measuring with tape measure myself once the bike was home.