I've set up some gravel ride "events" in the past -- only advertising is on Facebook, and it has grown each year simply through word of mouth. Free event, no insurance ("it's just a group of people doing a ride together, not a race"). As long as there is no money exchanging, it's not a race, safety rules are emphasized, and you have everyone sign a waiver before, you should be okay. That said, if there is gross negligence (in course design, allowing some one to enter who has no business being there, etc.), nothing will protect you. I'd exercise extreme caution on the swim, however. Not having rescue folks available might cross that negligence line, and having them there might expose them to liability.

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

 
I think this is a good question and I'm interested to know what others say about it. When does something shift from a gathering of friends to something where the organizer is responsible?

sorry if i'm being obtuse here, but this seems a little contradictory.... if it is indeed an informal gathering, not a race, for free, no money changing hands, then why would anyone sign a waiver ? if i'm asking you to sign a waiver, then it seems i am implying that i have assumed responsibility for your safety, assuring you of a safe venue, and opening myself up for legal accountability and liability. can you please clarify your point there ? just curious on this... thanks.

It's not a trivial question at all. The waiver really is all about the participant agreeing to NOT hold any one responsible for whatever happens but themselves. The one I use is a variation on the standard USAC waiver, but the variations are all about how I am NOT assuming any responsibility for any one's safety*. The route is published well ahead of time, I emphasize that people should review it and determine if they are up to the task (the routes I use are up there with some of the most difficult fondos in the state). But the entire thing is characterized as just a get-together of people to do a group ride/workout on a pre-determined route. That's all. No money involved, no prizes, no traffic control. My caution is with the inclusion of a swim portion -- seems that is exposing you to potential liability regardless of how the event is characterized. Just my thoughts.

* In reality, though, I execute the event keeping an eye on how everyone is doing, and FEEL a certain amount of responsibility for everyone, regardless of my legal requirements.

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

why is one needed at all? With sites like meetup, plenty of people just setup meetups for rides, runs, swims, etc. People show up, or don't, and you go for a swim. The organizer is just someone who entered the meetup, not someone taking responsibility for other people's safety.

Is it legally required? Maybe not. Is it easy to do? Yes. Has anyone refused to sign it? Not yet. Maybe it's nothing more than a feel-good CYA exercise for myself with no benefit. Whatever, I'm going to keep on doing it. For my two-day ride, I also provide a beer-and-nosh gathering after the first day's ride. There may be some liability I'm exposing myself to by providing beer. Again, that's all free as well.

If you don't want to do it, then by all means conduct your event and go for it. I hope it doesn't backfire.

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

still not seeing your position here. if this a friendly "get-together", no money, no prizes, no anything, a voluntary gathering, then why would you open yourself up to what sounds like an implied liability by offering up a waiver in the first place ? if this is an informal gathering of voluntary participation, what would make YOU the target of being a "responsible / liable" party ? just because you issued a call-out to your friends "let's meet up to go do a workout together" ? your last bit in RED, however, is a bit more revealing, in that it is more than a gathering, but a more structured affair that you are "executing"..... that seems to add more meat the bone of your position, i suppose.....

It was something that was recommended to me by others who conduct group rides. There are shops and other groups that even do weekly training rides that have the participants sign waivers before the start. I haven't consulted with attorneys on the true legal aspects, and they may vary by state.

My statement about how I execute the event has more to do with MY mindset on the day, however you want to read that.

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

i hear and respect your position. was just trying to understand it fully. as far "other groups" and in particular, bike shops, that conduct regular (weekly) training sessions, that sounds to me to be a very different bird. a bike shop is a professional entity, a sponsor specific to the activity, that (in your example) is conducting formal regularly scheduled activity. as experts in the activity, and conducting pre-planned / regularly scheduled weekly activity, there is more of an assumption of responsibility for the conduct of the activity. this is different, IMO, than an informal call to friends to "let's go have a workout together after work at place X".

This is exactly the conversation I wanted to have. Thanks guys. There is some gray area here obviously or is there? The waiver route seems like an easy route to take and a low barrier of entry. But is it necessary... Looks like we need a legal professional to step in and define it for us....

I own an event production company that produces races and also own retail stores that host boat loads of free group runs/workouts. We have insurance coverage for all of them.

People ask me often exactly what you are asking. My response is always the same, "do you like your house and want to keep it"

Granted I live in a sue happy state and waivers are worth almost nothing but if you "advertise" your runs and you are the "organizer" of the , if something goes wrong you will get sued. Just the world we currently live in.

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Boots
Fleet Feet Rochester, NY
Fleet Feet Buffalo, NY
YellowJacket Racing, Rochester, NY

I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. When people ask about the sanctioning/insursance of my ad-hoc events I tell them we're sanctioned and insured by "GFY" Productions. Which is what I'd tell someone who sued.

I have a personal umbrella policy, which is cheap, and likely just as - if not more - protective than the waiver business. And a hell of a lot less hassle.

to your point, you are a professional business engaged in producing races/events. i would say that that presumes an implied acceptance of responsibility for the pre-planned and formal staging of events. this would include an implied assurance of a safe venue. per my previous post, this is, IMO, different than an informal gathering of comrades to meet for something of an ad-hoc gathering to work out together. just because i call out to said friends doesn't not mean i'm making guarantees for their safety.

i might even go so far as to say that your business hosting free runs/workouts on public venues/roads should not liable for someone getting hurt due to road conditions or the actions of motorists (all out of your control and responsibility), no different than if that person was out there on his/her own time. now, if you accept entry fees, now you're talking a different beast. you are taking money in return for certain assurances, safety being among them.

definitely agree with you that in our society, too many people look to someone to blame for their misfortunes rather than take responsibility for their own outcomes.

I totally get that. I've also seen the workout with friends evolve to workouts with more people attending that you don't know then the ones you do know.

Before my stores my buddy and I started a winter ride for the 2 of us to ride at night downtown in the winter. Then a few friends got invited to join us. When it started getting 50-100 riders each week I knew it was time to get out as we were seen as the organizers of this weekly event and we would be on the hook for any issues.

If you can keep your group from expanding beyond just your friends it's fine, no big deal, if it organically grows beyond that you should be concerned.

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Boots
Fleet Feet Rochester, NY
Fleet Feet Buffalo, NY
YellowJacket Racing, Rochester, NY

now, this post i totally agree with. when it goes from a friendly gathering of comrades to something more organized and formal, a different gig altogether, agreed.

 

I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. When people ask about the sanctioning/insursance of my ad-hoc events I tell them we're sanctioned and insured by "GFY" Productions. Which is what I'd tell someone who sued.

I have a personal umbrella policy, which is cheap, and likely just as - if not more - protective than the waiver business. And a hell of a lot less hassle.[/quote]

Hey Trail,

What type of events have you hosted and how large are they?

I'm a 12 yr USAT Level II RD as well as a career insurance advisor.
In an informal group ride, irrespective of it being "executed" by you (someone has to yell at laggards), should someone sustain an accident to the extent they assert your negligence caused or contributed to their damages, the personal liability coverage within a homeowners insurance policy (as well as personal umbrella policy) would provide for your defense and judgement/settlement damages subject to the policy limit. The take away here is the injured person would need to prevail with a legal argument that you owed them a duty to keep them safe and that as a consequence of that failure they sustained damages for which you have a legal liability to make them whole. That's a high bar to achieve within the context of a "friends ride" but having to defend yourself in a legal action is the real value of personal liability insurance.
Were your conduct of these rides/events to constitute a "trade, profession or occupation", then you'd be SOL as far as your personal insurance is concerned.
Finally, I really don't see any practical need for the waiver under the circumstances you described.

That really gets down to who is attending and how the event is organized. Just a small group of friends... sure that's fine to not have to worry about a waiver/insurance. Once you begin to open it to the public and provide a set plan of route and such you are increasing your liability greatly. And don't forget a lot of municipalities require permits for having any event that takes place. This is especially true if its in a city/county/state park. Where I live, a permit is generally required for any event that has a gathering of 5 or more people (yes, it sounds silly and its sometimes a pain to deal with but it is what is). Once you have that many people it really starts to be classified as an organized event and thus a permit and insurance is required. So, for the OP if this group is anyone beyond just a couple of friends and the general public is invited and also where a set route is determined I would at a minimum have a waiver to remotely protect yourself. Once you invite the public you have no clue who is going to show up. You could get that person who doesn't have any regard to local laws like jaywalking or riding through a stop-sign/light. While I firmly believe people should be held accountable for their own actions our courts don't always see it that way and being the organizer you've now set yourself up pretty well for being held at least partially liable. And don't forget, the injured party could be someone who is not a part of your group. I thank my lucky stars I never had to deal with any litigation while in charge of a local run group that met on Thursdays before we moved it being a non-profit and got liability insurance. We harassed any runner who jay-walked (we kept attendance each week and if one person jaywalked the whole club lost that night's attendance) but some just didn't give two shits. So I turned it into a non-profit to help protect my personal liability. I kind of wanted to keep my house and car. Mind you, the group started out with just 9 people but now average over 400+ people at our weekly run. As the old adage goes... its better to be safe than sorry.

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Train to race. Race to win.

Informal, self-supported ultra-triathlons. Type of thing that started as a fun-to-do thing just for a few buddies, but gained traction, and we ended up sending invitations to tri clubs and the public in general. Never more than a few dozen participants.