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Question on Road Bike sizes....same bike and making 2 different sizes work
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My gut reaction on this is either size would work/be the same.....but wanted to ask those who may have actually test ridden this situation for feedback.

I'm in the market for a new road bike and am in between sizes (56/58). Using Velogicfit frame comparison it looks like I can make both sizes work in any brand and the two different sizes could pretty much be set up identical by using different stem lengths and spacers. Am I correct to assume that both bikes should ride pretty much identical?

The Cervelo below is just one example, but I am looking at several different brands and model options.....




Last edited by: MKirk: Mar 6, 18 6:52
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Re: Question on Road Bike sizes....same bike and making 2 different sizes work [MKirk] [ In reply to ]
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No, the handling will be different. Weight distribution over the wheels will be different, and the leverage you get from the different steerer will be different.

In general, the larger bike will have a longer wheelbase and less weight on the front wheel and will be a little more stable at high speeds, at the expense of some "responsiveness".

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Re: Question on Road Bike sizes....same bike and making 2 different sizes work [MKirk] [ In reply to ]
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Smaller frame will have more seatpost exposed which, in most cases, will mean more flex and, depending on the construction of said seatpost, some degree less impact harshness on your backside.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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Re: Question on Road Bike sizes....same bike and making 2 different sizes work [MKirk] [ In reply to ]
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Ditto Jason... The longer top tube will effectively push the front wheel further forward on the larger bike. Then, the bottom bracket drop is shorter on the bigger bike. So, there are three balance and dynamics changes:
  1. Rider center of gravity moves higher
  2. Rider center of gravity moves rearward relative to axles
  3. Bike wheelbase goes longer

How these all combine to affect handling is a long physics analysis. Higher CoG and longer wheel base would both make handling less responsive. Moving CoG rearward could make handling more responsive (not sure there).
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Re: Question on Road Bike sizes....same bike and making 2 different sizes work [MKirk] [ In reply to ]
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I'd go with the 58 in your case.

If I'm reading the 58cm fit correctly, you'll need a 100mm stem and only 3mm of spacers. That will be a very clean looking fit.

The 56cm is starting to look a little too small given the relatively long (120mm) stem and need to add more spacers under the stem.
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Re: Question on Road Bike sizes....same bike and making 2 different sizes work [beston] [ In reply to ]
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beston wrote:
I'd go with the 58 in your case.

If I'm reading the 58cm fit correctly, you'll need a 100mm stem and only 3mm of spacers. That will be a very clean looking fit.

The 56cm is starting to look a little too small given the relatively long (120mm) stem and need to add more spacers under the stem.

With this bike in particular, I'd go the other way, personally. If he ran 15mm spacer stack then they'd have exactly the same bar position, and I've always preferred a slightly longer stem. the smaller frame gives the option to drop the bars a little bit if he chooses at some point in the future without having to buy a new stem.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

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Re: Question on Road Bike sizes....same bike and making 2 different sizes work [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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I can appreciate that. I suppose it comes down to preference and how 'set' he is in his fit. If this is a first time fit, I'd agree that it's best to leave room for adjustment down as one get's more comfortable on the bike.
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Re: Question on Road Bike sizes....same bike and making 2 different sizes work [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
beston wrote:
I'd go with the 58 in your case.

If I'm reading the 58cm fit correctly, you'll need a 100mm stem and only 3mm of spacers. That will be a very clean looking fit.

The 56cm is starting to look a little too small given the relatively long (120mm) stem and need to add more spacers under the stem.


With this bike in particular, I'd go the other way, personally. If he ran 15mm spacer stack then they'd have exactly the same bar position, and I've always preferred a slightly longer stem. the smaller frame gives the option to drop the bars a little bit if he chooses at some point in the future without having to buy a new stem.

This is kind of why I was asking. With the difficulty of being able to test ride a lot of different brands...as I find many shops outside of Trek and Specialized do not stock many bikes and getting a demo from a sales rep is near impossible and makes it difficult picking the right size. I screen shot the Cervelo as I "may" be able to get a ride on the R5....not sure if it will be a 56 or 58 or both. I'll also look to demo a Trek Madone and Edmonda......both of which I'm pretty sure I can get a leg over a 56 and 58.....but I'm also looking at the Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc, Pinarella F8 disc, Wilier Centi10Air disc.......all of which would have to be purchased sight unseen.

I guess my best option is to try what models I can in both a 56 and 58 and see which feel right and whatever I decide on go with that size. Right now I am on an old Cervelo S2 (2012 I think) with a 120mm 0 degree stem. I think the 120mm stem is too long (I have the saddle railed all the way forward). Looking to put on a 100mm stem for a while to see how that feels.......but you can see in the comparisons of the different bikes.....I can "make" both 56's and 58's work......which kind of makes me feel like I'm flipping a coin a bit.










































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Re: Question on Road Bike sizes....same bike and making 2 different sizes work [MKirk] [ In reply to ]
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MKirk wrote:
I think the 120mm stem is too long (I have the saddle railed all the way forward).

What do you mean by the above quote? Why do you have the saddle all the way forward on the rails? Is it because that's where your ideal setback is or are you compensating for a fit with too much reach?

As you may or may not be aware, you should never adjust saddle setback (forward or backward) to account for reach issues. You should always dial in your saddle height and setback and THEN adjust for reach with different stem length and/or bar reach/drop.

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Re: Question on Road Bike sizes....same bike and making 2 different sizes work [Bonesbrigade] [ In reply to ]
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Bonesbrigade wrote:
MKirk wrote:
I think the 120mm stem is too long (I have the saddle railed all the way forward).

What do you mean by the above quote? Why do you have the saddle all the way forward on the rails? Is it because that's where your ideal setback is or are you compensating for a fit with too much reach?

As you may or may not be aware, you should never adjust saddle setback (forward or backward) to account for reach issues. You should always dial in your saddle height and setback and THEN adjust for reach with different stem length and/or bar reach/drop.

You are correct. Saddle position has ended up compensating for too much reach. I have had this bike for about 6 years and I think over time with small adjustments, ended up this way. Position didn’t feel “bad” so have always gone with it. Only now, looking at a new bike purchase I have really started to pay more attention to my fit....making some adjustments and figuring out I probably have about ~20mm too much reach.
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Re: Question on Road Bike sizes....same bike and making 2 different sizes work [MKirk] [ In reply to ]
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I would work on dial in your current bike better. Counter intuitively more saddle setback can allow more reach if done correctly because it allows more weight on your ass and less on your hands.
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Re: Question on Road Bike sizes....same bike and making 2 different sizes work [Runless] [ In reply to ]
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Runless wrote:
I would work on dial in your current bike better. Counter intuitively more saddle setback can allow more reach if done correctly because it allows more weight on your ass and less on your hands.

Yup....already working on it. Just grabbed a 100mm stem to make some adjustments
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Re: Question on Road Bike sizes....same bike and making 2 different sizes work [MKirk] [ In reply to ]
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MKirk wrote:
Runless wrote:
I would work on dial in your current bike better. Counter intuitively more saddle setback can allow more reach if done correctly because it allows more weight on your ass and less on your hands.

Yup....already working on it. Just grabbed a 100mm stem to make some adjustments

I agree, definitely the smart way at this point before you make any purchase decisions. You may find out you don’t need a new bike. I havent seen any significant improvements in bikes compared to your S2.

I’m still happy with my 2008 SLC-SL.

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Re: Question on Road Bike sizes....same bike and making 2 different sizes work [MKirk] [ In reply to ]
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Generalities in bike fit are nearly worthless, however, generally speaking, I like to go down in sizing for a road bike. I like more seat post, around a 110 stem, and like the feeling of being "bigger" than my bike. May be from my bmx days as a teenager. Many pros ride bikes too small for them for various reasons as well. If it were a TT bike, Slowman recommends (recommended?) getting the biggest frame that fits, but that may be outdated knowledge.
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Re: Question on Road Bike sizes....same bike and making 2 different sizes work [Bonesbrigade] [ In reply to ]
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Bonesbrigade wrote:
MKirk wrote:
Runless wrote:
I would work on dial in your current bike better. Counter intuitively more saddle setback can allow more reach if done correctly because it allows more weight on your ass and less on your hands.

Yup....already working on it. Just grabbed a 100mm stem to make some adjustments

I agree, definitely the smart way at this point before you make any purchase decisions. You may find out you don’t need a new bike. I havent seen any significant improvements in bikes compared to your S2.

I’m still happy with my 2008 SLC-SL.

Well, when the boss in the house says “why don’t you buy yourself a new bike”......I don’t have to ask twice.
I like the Cervelo S2 but something new would be nice, plus it has the original DA Di2 and replacement parts are starting to get tougher to find.
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Re: Question on Road Bike sizes....same bike and making 2 different sizes work [MKirk] [ In reply to ]
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The larger one....SLAM the stem
I’m in the same situation when I had a S3 a while back..between 54/56
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Re: Question on Road Bike sizes....same bike and making 2 different sizes work [MKirk] [ In reply to ]
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I have gone from years of riding a 58cm cannondales to my latsest a 56. I haven't and don't think you will notice any significant difference in handling for a 2cm difference in frame. The biggest handling difference you would notice is using a different length stem. Personally in hindsight I wish I went to a 56 earlier. The 58 I had a slammed stem and now I run spacers and slighly more aggressive position.
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Re: Question on Road Bike sizes....same bike and making 2 different sizes work [MKirk] [ In reply to ]
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I would suggest absolutely avoiding test rides as a way to chose bikes.

My personal opinion is that there is virtually no value in test riding a bike and, on the contrary, it can be very misleading.
A test ride will not tell you much about your fit either and if you already have a bike, there are much better ways!

Why do I say test rides are pointless?
Because you're not really testing the bike frame. You are actually just testing the setup the bike shop has it configured with. You could ride the perfect frame for you but if the saddle type, height, fore/aft position or tilt are wrong you will not enjoy it. The same goes for the stem/bars and hoods. If you're just having a bad day, you will not enjoy it. If the weather is bad or the roads available for the test ride aren't great, you may not enjoy it. If the gears or brakes are poorly set up, you will be irritated. If the tyre type and especially the tyre pressure is inappropriate this can utterly change the feel of a bike. For all these reasons, and others, a test ride does not really test the frame, it tests a whole bundle of variables that would likely be very different if you were to have the same bike model yourself. I came to this conclusion when I was shopping for my last road bike a few years ago. After doing a few test rides I decided they were a waste of time and in the end I bought a Canyon Ultimate, having never even seen one in person. If the geometry is right, and the equipment spec is good, and the manufacturer is trustworthy, it all comes down to how you set it up. In my opinion the frame is rarely the most critical element even if it's the biggest, most obvious and most expensive. It does matter, but mostly in terms of what it allows you do with fit and setup. Actual ride experience is all about fit, saddle, tyres, bar (and maybe even bar tape!)....and all the non bike related variables like your fitness, mood and the environment.

I would suggest spending some time getting your fit right on your current bike, or figuring out why you can't, before even considering pulling the trigger on a new bike. If the reach on your current bike is too long and thus your saddle position is wrong, I'd prioritise figuring this out.

This sounds very similar to some of the issues I dealt with when I bought my Ultimate. My previous bike was heavy and I'd bought it used when i was pretty new to cycling. Now I wanted something new and shiny since I'd decided I was going to stick with cycling for the long term.
I'd messed around with the fit of the original bike a bit over the previous year or two but had gotten things a bit out of whack. When I was tryingto figure out my geometry needs and looked at my existing setup critically, I realised my saddle was too far forward and a bit high and my stem was too long. It was now clear to me that the reach of the bike combined with the original 110mm stem had been too long and had caused me to set up the saddle in a very forward position. I'd become used to that position. I had fairly regular hand numbness issues on long rides but thought that was normal (I'd only been riding a couple of years). After riding the bike a while in it's original setup, I'd changed the handlebar for something a little narrower and shorter reach, which should have helped but instead, thinking the saddle position was okay, I'd put on a 120mm stem to maintain the reach. So before I bought a new bike, I bought a 100mm Specialised stem that also allowed me try a big range of bar heights. They do range of stems that use inserts in the stem clamp to provide 2 or 4 degree adjustments in stem angle. I bought a 100mm 20degree stem for about €40. That allowed me try anything from -16deg to -24deg on the stem. That was probably my best ever cycling purchase.
I put my saddle where conventional wisdom suggested it should be. I put on the shorter stem, moved the hoods up a bit on the bars and dropped the bar a little via spacers and the stem angle. It took a few rides to get used to but comfort definitely improved and perhaps handling too.

Next I looked at what bikes were available. I liked the price, spec and appearance of the Canyon Ultimate. When I looked at a size M, the reach seemed perfect but the stack height looked quite low compared to what I was used to. With the max 25mm of spacers I would be just below where I currently had the bars. Ideally I wanted my current position which now seemed good, to sit in the middle of the adjustability range for whatever I bought, so I'd have scope to tweak further if needed. So I went back to my existing bike, which now had lots of scope for height adjustment at the front end with the new stem. Over the next few rides I experimented to see how much saddle to bar drop was too much for me. I progressively dropped the bars by removing any remaining spacers and tilting the stem to max drop. After a week or two I was very comfortable about 15mm lower at the front and had tried going even lower without major difficulty.
Next, just to be absolutely certain, I got an independent bike fit. He reckoned I had things about right and made only minor adjustments, (I think he moved the saddle even further back and dropped it a couple more millimeters, plus tilted the bars slightly in the clamp, nothing dramatic). So I bought the Canyon in confidence, sight unseen, based on my new setup on the existing bike. It had cost me about €160 between the stem and a fit, but I'd probably have gotten the fit anyway once I changed bikes. When the bike arrived I set it up to match my fit and knew I'd have some adjustability available if I ever wanted it. Nearly 4 years later I still have a very similar setup. I've changed the saddle but it's position is much the same. I've also dropped the bars a little more. I think I originally had 20mm of spacers and now I have 10mm. I got the geometry right and never regretted buying the bike without a test ride. I would have liked to see one before I bought but as it turned out the bike looked even better in person than in the pictures so I was very satisfied!

Sorry for the long post!

In summary:
  • Figure out the fit first. Use your existing bike as a tool for this and don't be afraid to start from scratch and buy some cheap parts especially a stem if you need to facilitate this.
  • Don't put much stock in a test ride. I recommend skipping them entirely. They can be very misleading.
  • Buy something that allows a little adjustability in either direction. e.g. Don't start with a very long or short stem, it leaves you nowhere to go. A 100mm or 110mm stem seems best for starters since 80-130mm is the typical range available.

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Re: Question on Road Bike sizes....same bike and making 2 different sizes work [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the detailed info and opinion. I already had it in the back of my mind that the parts on a demo type bike were going to be....let just say "different" and that I would even hate riding them. I have Di2 on both of my bikes and my winter bike I've been on for the last 4 month has hydo disc as well......so I knew that would be there. I do plan on spending some time getting a bike set up properly initially and will make adjustments on the fly to get a demo ride dialed in best as possible - but I do see your point. Really, my thought with attempting some demos is hoping that one bike may jump out at me as "the one". If not, I'll just buy one that has doable geometry and make me want it! The Canyon Ultimate is at the top of my list with the Cervelo R5d......but I'm open to any that fit what I am looking for. I'd consider the Pinarello F8 disc but I think max tire size is 25's....I really like the Wilier Cento10Air Disc and how all the cables are hidden, just not sure I could make the aggressive geometry work.
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