Hi. I'm an age grouper training for my 4th ironman this year. I did a write up about bike fits and thought this group would enjoy the content so I'm pasting it in. I have really enjoyed the content on this site regarding fits. Thanks everyone. : )
Get Fit!
After both buying my 650 wheeled Cervelo P5 to achieve a better fit and recently having a few discussions with some friends about bike fits, I’ve decided to share my experience and thoughts on the topic. Fits are important to comfort, enjoyment of the bike and speed. Fitters range from sales staff with dollar sign gleams in their eyes using quick stand over tests, shop staff trained to fit customers with a focus in partner brands to other professionals dedicated to the trade with high tech tools and the ability to effectively use such tools to help athletes. In the best experiences you walk...err ride away faster and empowered with information on how your own dynamic rider puzzle fits you and your bicycle together. I seek those who treat bike fitting as a trade, an art and a passion. This caliber of talent can be found with specialists in different environments but this blog will focus on pre-purchase fits which ideally comes from a brand neutral source so you are steered towards unlimited options with expert advice to help get you through the maze of tri bike shopping.
A bike fitter can review your riding style and measure you to provide you with a “bike fit coordinate” sheet specific to your body, ability level and goals. It is your bicycle DNA as fitter, Dave Luscan of DL Multisports describes it. It will contain coordinates based on your unique measurements that is yours to keep and serves as instruction for how the bike should be set up to achieve your position.
Filling out the "Fit Sheet"
Most recently I was fit by Dave Luscan on the super cool and fun Retul fit bike to help guide my bike purchase choices. He has experience fitting all levels from local newbie to the elite professionals who travel for hours for his time.
(Note: Although I put his logo on my blog, it is because I believe in his work. Neither he nor the other fitters mentioned have requested or previewed this blog. I am not sponsored by them and I paid in full as an athlete for the DL Multisports triathlete bike fit. See below for database link of other fitters).
Success Story 2 at the bottom of the page describes what that fit process is like if you want to skip ahead!
So, what’s prompted the blog exactly? Two discussions and two success stories as follows:
Discussion one involved a friend who was looking for a brand of bike in the same size as his road bike simply because he “likes that brand” and the sales staff recommended it for him. That sales associate did so without ever measuring him by the way. Tsk Tsk. Sizing varies from one bike to the next. A bike fitter, especially one with an outside unbiased opinion can help athletes navigate the complex labyrinth of bike sizing with out any pressure on a certain brand.
Bike Sizing Insert:
Take my 45 cm P5 Cervelo for example. Dave mentioned that due to my fit numbers, ideally a bike made with 650 wheels would allow me to achieve my optimal strongest and most aerodynamic position. If I was interested in the Cervelos, the 45cm would match up. I was miffed about 650s and reluctant. Further, when I previously owned a Cervelo I was in a 48 frame size under their old sizing scheme. At the time of this fit I was on a 51cm Felt.
Brace yourself... Here's what Dave wrote to me:
(Note that stack is simply the vertical measurement of the rider on the bike and reach is the horizontal measurement, as in reach to the bars).
"But take heart! That bike is really not a whole lot smaller than the 48, frame reach only decreases by 6mm from 381 to 375. In fact if you compare the 45cm Cervelo P5 to the Cannondale Slice line, you see the much smaller numerically P5 is actually a slightly longer bike in frame reach than the 51cm Slice. 375 versus 371 for the 51 Cannondale. This is just one example. The 45cm Cervelo has roughly the same reach as a 47 Felt B series or 50cm Fuji. It's a long enough bike for someone of your height.
http://www.slowtwitch.com/stackreach/index.php
It's those 650 wheels that make all the difference for you though. They allow the bike to have a super small stack of x. You would miss your drop number by over 3 cm on the 48cm P5 with 700 wheels (485 stack). 3cm is a lot and represents 9-15 watts of aero drag or roughly .3 - .5 mph. That is what you essentially give up with 700 wheels. You would be a rocket on a 650 wheeled P5."
I pushed back as I was still unconvinced about 45 cm was best even after solo research and asking other opinions. 45 cm sounded too tiny a size and at 5'3" I'm small but not a certifiable "midget". : ) he reiterated:
"P5 in 45cm has a frame reach of 375mm. This is one of the best measures of a bikes true size. How long it is. Bikes with similar reach numbers include Speed Concept in XS (shorter @ 370), Spec Shiv XS (even shorter @ 365), Fuji D6 (actually a shorter reach on a larger numerical bike, 48cm has a reach of 354), same reach as a 47cm B series Felt. Why am I telling you all this? Simple. Calling the bike you need to fit on a size 45 is an arbitrary distinction."
Based on this and more ongoing dialogue, I was ready to order the bike from my choice of shop, which was 3Sports.
This brings us to discussion two that came up last week. It is a common question I receive from all levels of riders.
Friend: How did you buy the bike with out test riding it first?
Me: It is rare for a local bicycle shop to carry my size on the floor. The rider to bike integration can be so intricate that a shop would not make the mechanical adjustments required to garner the full experience of what the bike would feel like in the ideal position. I enter a shop armed with knowledge and ready to purchase the brand and size that is perfect for me. Hey, this even makes it easier for the LBS (local bike shop) as you walk in ready to buy and they don’t need to “sell” you on their bikes.
Friend: How?
Me: I don’t always buy a new triathlon bike, but when I do…. I research heavily and I go for a pre-purchase bike fit from an unbiased, experienced professional bike fitter. : )
The fit coordinates are widely used and understood by the triathlon bike shops so they know how to read the sheets and set you up. Even if you buy from someone new to these sheets, the fitter can answer their questions. So what's the process like? Here are my most recent fits.
SUCCESS STORY # 1 SHOP/COACH/OUTSIDE FITTER COORDINATION:
In 2013, I was fit by Dave as it had been a few years between fits and I'd been talking to my coach at the time (Michael) about big goals for being more powerful on the bike. I recieved Dave Luscan's services and after our session he recommended a more adjustable front end (aerobars/basebars) to help me achieve a better position on my current wheels. I took the fit sheet numbers to Dane. Dane is a mechanic and in shop fitter who I respect as he cares about athletes and takes the fit trade seriously. I appreciated having another set of eyes on my fit as investing in that equipment was a big deal and I like to fully research. Dane agreed the coordinates from Dave were spot on for me and that a new front end would really help dial me in closer to my ideal position.
When I reached out to my coach at the time, Michal Harlow about the change, he emailed me a reassuring note to say, “Its great to know that the two best fitters in town agree on your position.” His high regard for the talent in my bike fitting was encouraging. I decided based on our trust in that, I would go ahead and modify my bike. It was essentially a cooperative and seamless process for me, as an athlete customer. The best shops know how to read the fit sheets and work with other fitters.
SUCCESS STORY 2: A COMPREHENSIVE PRE-PURCHASE BIKE FIT
Walking in, prep yourself for plenty of measurements, lots of focused riding under a watchful eye at all intensity levels and lessons in geometry. Dave is animated about things like angles formed by the rider on their bikes and insists on gifting you with education about bike geometry and how you specially mesh with the bike. A quirk unique for me is that my upper arms are very long so I require unusually big "drop" numbers. It is a very fun and thorough process even with all the necessary geometry talk. : )
Dave asked me to show up in my bike kit (Coeur Sports tri top and shorts of course) that I will race in and bike shoes. We went over the basic objectives I had in mind for the fit and he explained what we would be doing. He kept it about what I wanted to accomplish, which was to obtain my fit coordinates and determine which bikes in the market would work best for me based on my own unique geometry.
I didn’t even need to bring my own bike for this fit because he has an awesome Retul fit bike machine that is completely adjustable. It looks like a stationary bike and it can be moved while you are sitting on it for quick adjustments and comparison of different saddle heights or reach to the bars.
The machine lets riders quickly test out various positions as well as equipment changes. He can let the athlete try out popular saddles and try various crank lengths in a matter of minutes. The system was very impressive and he’s adept with it. He set me up on his Retul bike machine and watched me ride at various intensities. We changed the position around more than a few times. I joked it was like being at the eye doctor as he ever so slightly altered aspects asking repeatedly…”Is this better? OR this?" He had a goniometer tool to measure body angles to confirm that I was self selecting within normal ranges.
At the end, he circled back with my coordinate sheet and we talked about bikes. Most of the bikes that would be fastest and strongest and allow my ideal position were…in 650 wheels. I was MIFFED at first about the 650s but as noted above I worked through that hurdle with the facts and insight.
I decided to go with the P5 in 45 cm from 3Sports, which I absolutely love. Already, I'm feeling faster out on the roads and powerful too.
Once I had the bike and rode it a bit I asked Dave to look it over after one of his track practices. We’ve even decided based on my feedback to raise the seat up after the picture of me on my bike at the top of this post was taken and make tiny adjustments from here. Fits are an ongoing, dynamic process that require rider feedback and communication. I'm really happy with how perfectly this turned out.
I’m really pleased with the whole process and loving my well fitting Cervelo P5.
http://kelly-tri-adventures.blogspot.com
Get Fit!
After both buying my 650 wheeled Cervelo P5 to achieve a better fit and recently having a few discussions with some friends about bike fits, I’ve decided to share my experience and thoughts on the topic. Fits are important to comfort, enjoyment of the bike and speed. Fitters range from sales staff with dollar sign gleams in their eyes using quick stand over tests, shop staff trained to fit customers with a focus in partner brands to other professionals dedicated to the trade with high tech tools and the ability to effectively use such tools to help athletes. In the best experiences you walk...err ride away faster and empowered with information on how your own dynamic rider puzzle fits you and your bicycle together. I seek those who treat bike fitting as a trade, an art and a passion. This caliber of talent can be found with specialists in different environments but this blog will focus on pre-purchase fits which ideally comes from a brand neutral source so you are steered towards unlimited options with expert advice to help get you through the maze of tri bike shopping.
A bike fitter can review your riding style and measure you to provide you with a “bike fit coordinate” sheet specific to your body, ability level and goals. It is your bicycle DNA as fitter, Dave Luscan of DL Multisports describes it. It will contain coordinates based on your unique measurements that is yours to keep and serves as instruction for how the bike should be set up to achieve your position.
Filling out the "Fit Sheet"
Most recently I was fit by Dave Luscan on the super cool and fun Retul fit bike to help guide my bike purchase choices. He has experience fitting all levels from local newbie to the elite professionals who travel for hours for his time.
(Note: Although I put his logo on my blog, it is because I believe in his work. Neither he nor the other fitters mentioned have requested or previewed this blog. I am not sponsored by them and I paid in full as an athlete for the DL Multisports triathlete bike fit. See below for database link of other fitters).
Success Story 2 at the bottom of the page describes what that fit process is like if you want to skip ahead!
So, what’s prompted the blog exactly? Two discussions and two success stories as follows:
Discussion one involved a friend who was looking for a brand of bike in the same size as his road bike simply because he “likes that brand” and the sales staff recommended it for him. That sales associate did so without ever measuring him by the way. Tsk Tsk. Sizing varies from one bike to the next. A bike fitter, especially one with an outside unbiased opinion can help athletes navigate the complex labyrinth of bike sizing with out any pressure on a certain brand.
Bike Sizing Insert:
Take my 45 cm P5 Cervelo for example. Dave mentioned that due to my fit numbers, ideally a bike made with 650 wheels would allow me to achieve my optimal strongest and most aerodynamic position. If I was interested in the Cervelos, the 45cm would match up. I was miffed about 650s and reluctant. Further, when I previously owned a Cervelo I was in a 48 frame size under their old sizing scheme. At the time of this fit I was on a 51cm Felt.
Brace yourself... Here's what Dave wrote to me:
(Note that stack is simply the vertical measurement of the rider on the bike and reach is the horizontal measurement, as in reach to the bars).
"But take heart! That bike is really not a whole lot smaller than the 48, frame reach only decreases by 6mm from 381 to 375. In fact if you compare the 45cm Cervelo P5 to the Cannondale Slice line, you see the much smaller numerically P5 is actually a slightly longer bike in frame reach than the 51cm Slice. 375 versus 371 for the 51 Cannondale. This is just one example. The 45cm Cervelo has roughly the same reach as a 47 Felt B series or 50cm Fuji. It's a long enough bike for someone of your height.
http://www.slowtwitch.com/stackreach/index.php
It's those 650 wheels that make all the difference for you though. They allow the bike to have a super small stack of x. You would miss your drop number by over 3 cm on the 48cm P5 with 700 wheels (485 stack). 3cm is a lot and represents 9-15 watts of aero drag or roughly .3 - .5 mph. That is what you essentially give up with 700 wheels. You would be a rocket on a 650 wheeled P5."
I pushed back as I was still unconvinced about 45 cm was best even after solo research and asking other opinions. 45 cm sounded too tiny a size and at 5'3" I'm small but not a certifiable "midget". : ) he reiterated:
"P5 in 45cm has a frame reach of 375mm. This is one of the best measures of a bikes true size. How long it is. Bikes with similar reach numbers include Speed Concept in XS (shorter @ 370), Spec Shiv XS (even shorter @ 365), Fuji D6 (actually a shorter reach on a larger numerical bike, 48cm has a reach of 354), same reach as a 47cm B series Felt. Why am I telling you all this? Simple. Calling the bike you need to fit on a size 45 is an arbitrary distinction."
Based on this and more ongoing dialogue, I was ready to order the bike from my choice of shop, which was 3Sports.
This brings us to discussion two that came up last week. It is a common question I receive from all levels of riders.
Friend: How did you buy the bike with out test riding it first?
Me: It is rare for a local bicycle shop to carry my size on the floor. The rider to bike integration can be so intricate that a shop would not make the mechanical adjustments required to garner the full experience of what the bike would feel like in the ideal position. I enter a shop armed with knowledge and ready to purchase the brand and size that is perfect for me. Hey, this even makes it easier for the LBS (local bike shop) as you walk in ready to buy and they don’t need to “sell” you on their bikes.
Friend: How?
Me: I don’t always buy a new triathlon bike, but when I do…. I research heavily and I go for a pre-purchase bike fit from an unbiased, experienced professional bike fitter. : )
The fit coordinates are widely used and understood by the triathlon bike shops so they know how to read the sheets and set you up. Even if you buy from someone new to these sheets, the fitter can answer their questions. So what's the process like? Here are my most recent fits.
SUCCESS STORY # 1 SHOP/COACH/OUTSIDE FITTER COORDINATION:
In 2013, I was fit by Dave as it had been a few years between fits and I'd been talking to my coach at the time (Michael) about big goals for being more powerful on the bike. I recieved Dave Luscan's services and after our session he recommended a more adjustable front end (aerobars/basebars) to help me achieve a better position on my current wheels. I took the fit sheet numbers to Dane. Dane is a mechanic and in shop fitter who I respect as he cares about athletes and takes the fit trade seriously. I appreciated having another set of eyes on my fit as investing in that equipment was a big deal and I like to fully research. Dane agreed the coordinates from Dave were spot on for me and that a new front end would really help dial me in closer to my ideal position.
When I reached out to my coach at the time, Michal Harlow about the change, he emailed me a reassuring note to say, “Its great to know that the two best fitters in town agree on your position.” His high regard for the talent in my bike fitting was encouraging. I decided based on our trust in that, I would go ahead and modify my bike. It was essentially a cooperative and seamless process for me, as an athlete customer. The best shops know how to read the fit sheets and work with other fitters.
SUCCESS STORY 2: A COMPREHENSIVE PRE-PURCHASE BIKE FIT
Walking in, prep yourself for plenty of measurements, lots of focused riding under a watchful eye at all intensity levels and lessons in geometry. Dave is animated about things like angles formed by the rider on their bikes and insists on gifting you with education about bike geometry and how you specially mesh with the bike. A quirk unique for me is that my upper arms are very long so I require unusually big "drop" numbers. It is a very fun and thorough process even with all the necessary geometry talk. : )
Dave asked me to show up in my bike kit (Coeur Sports tri top and shorts of course) that I will race in and bike shoes. We went over the basic objectives I had in mind for the fit and he explained what we would be doing. He kept it about what I wanted to accomplish, which was to obtain my fit coordinates and determine which bikes in the market would work best for me based on my own unique geometry.
I didn’t even need to bring my own bike for this fit because he has an awesome Retul fit bike machine that is completely adjustable. It looks like a stationary bike and it can be moved while you are sitting on it for quick adjustments and comparison of different saddle heights or reach to the bars.
The machine lets riders quickly test out various positions as well as equipment changes. He can let the athlete try out popular saddles and try various crank lengths in a matter of minutes. The system was very impressive and he’s adept with it. He set me up on his Retul bike machine and watched me ride at various intensities. We changed the position around more than a few times. I joked it was like being at the eye doctor as he ever so slightly altered aspects asking repeatedly…”Is this better? OR this?" He had a goniometer tool to measure body angles to confirm that I was self selecting within normal ranges.
At the end, he circled back with my coordinate sheet and we talked about bikes. Most of the bikes that would be fastest and strongest and allow my ideal position were…in 650 wheels. I was MIFFED at first about the 650s but as noted above I worked through that hurdle with the facts and insight.
I decided to go with the P5 in 45 cm from 3Sports, which I absolutely love. Already, I'm feeling faster out on the roads and powerful too.
Once I had the bike and rode it a bit I asked Dave to look it over after one of his track practices. We’ve even decided based on my feedback to raise the seat up after the picture of me on my bike at the top of this post was taken and make tiny adjustments from here. Fits are an ongoing, dynamic process that require rider feedback and communication. I'm really happy with how perfectly this turned out.
I’m really pleased with the whole process and loving my well fitting Cervelo P5.
http://kelly-tri-adventures.blogspot.com