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Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA
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Before I get into the below I want to outline how happy I've been with these things - even though I've ridden them very lightly. I've seen the complaints on the forum around dropouts and battery caps, etc - but just never had any problems myself. I'd been a happy customer and even convinced two other friends to snag a set as well.

Thats changed rather quickly over the last 3-4 weeks and it centers around what I'd call an anti-consumer warranty policy and pretty terrible customer service.

To get started, here are some facts surrounding their warranty policy on these pedals:

  • For new pedals its stated as 2 years. What that covers is not easy to discern though. I assume against complete failure?
  • Because the bearings and axle only have a 6 month warranty. 6 MONTHS

More details here.


Keep in mind Garmin offers 2 years for their pedals with no costs incurred by the customer during that period for any work needed. I don't have experience with the Garmin pedals - but do have experience with Garmins CS and its always been top notch. Can read more about their policy here.


My pedals are 18-20 months old and have seen little use. I don't know the exact mileage and I'd be embarrassed to outline it even if I did. It's safely under 2k miles though (so sad, I know).


Last fall I noticed the right pedal had developed a ton of friction when attempting to spin it freely. Enough that it was quite noticeable even while pedaling.


1/23/18
Flash forward to a few weeks ago - I decided to reach out to Powertap to get them serviced. Grabbed the 800 number from the site and spoke to who I believe is the manager of their customer service team. Until I spoke to her, I had no idea the bearings within these pedals were only under warranty for 6 months. So you can imagine my shock when told that not only were they out of warranty but also that it would cost $250 for them to be serviced. And I had to pay for shipping back to Powertap. I balked and after some back and forth she agreed to service for $200. Which, frankly, is still ridiculous. I've owned a second hand quarq that was serviced free of charge. Thats of course the exception and not the rule - but with the powertap policy I could be looking at a $250 charge every year for a set of $1200 pedals. It seems incredibly absurd.


Regardless, I dropped them in the mail to the address given and they were received by Powertap on 1/26/18.


In the email received from the CS manager the day I sent the pedals in for repair I was told the following:


"On the outside of the box you can put your return authorization. That will allow our receiving department to know who the unit belongs to and what we are doing with it. Your return authorization number is RA92826. Once in house, we are usually able to repair the unit and ship it back out within 3-5 business day."



2/1/18
Three to five days seems acceptable to me but had no further communication with CS since 1/23. So last Thursday I sent a follow up email to check in on status. I received a response within two hours that stated that they were in the queue for repair and that she "would expect them to be done before the weekend" followed by "I will let you know when I get an update from the service team." Great news!


Also note, my card was charged for the work either on 1/1 or the day prior.

2/6/18
Since I'd received no update again, I followed up early yesterday morning. No response. So followed up again just before leaving the office yesterday.


2/7/18
Woke up again today to no response. So sent another email, while at the same time hit up their chat on the website. While there, I spoke to someone other than who I'd been dealing with previously. This gentleman informed me that my previous contact was indeed the manager and that essentially I needed to talk to her to get the updates I was looking for. Though did tell me that it looks like my pedals are "finishing up repair" and that they'll "expedite them to me". I asked if that meant they'd be shipped back to me today and he said that he'd expect that but cant guarantee. I questioned why I'd been charged prior to a shipping label being printed for delivery back to me and he again instructed me to reach out to the manager. Which is ironic because I'm on chat because the manager won't respond to my emails.


Powertap has my pedals which means my bike has been unrideable for 2.5 weeks, charged my card, cant tell me when servicing them will be finished despite quoting 3-5 day turn around time and also can't tell me when I can expect to have them back in my possession.


But beyond all that, I think my biggest issue is still this warranty policy. I can't imagine I'm the only one whos had to have these things serviced. Especially considering the 1st SERP for the query "Powertap P1 bearings" has this as the 2nd organic listing. These things appear to be known for having terrible bearings. I read instances around the web of people needing service 3, 4 and 5 times before they finally just gave up and moved on to a different product. Thats a lot of money to eat and just move on. Powertap appears to have a real problem here with a few things:


  1. Their product. Bearings that fail this quickly are indication of poor product design, IMO.
  2. Their warranty. An anti-consumer policy is in place to protect the company from what they appear to know is a faulty design. Six months? Or pay $250 outside of that 6 month warranty. Again, just ridiculous.
  3. And finally their customer service. You've got what appears to be a poorly designed product covered by an anti-consumer warranty policy - the least you could do is provide exceptional service around the policies in place. But I'm struggling to get answers or get these things back in a reasonable time frame.

Am I being unreasonable here? Anyone else had a similar experience? Specifically has anyone had a similar experience with Garmin? I'd like to know what that interaction looked like by comparison.


I remember when Powertap was sort of a gold standard. The hubs specifically. Even when needing service, the warranty and CS were always exceptional.



"One Line Robert"
Last edited by: wsrobert: Feb 7, 18 9:41
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Re: Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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Every interaction I've had with PT has been extremely good. I had several issues with the C1, and after 18 months of trouble with it, they upgraded me to the P1 (I paid the difference in cost)....

The new P1 pedals did take a couple of weeks to get, they told me the same thing they told you, there was a queue and that the pedals were made to order.

I haven't had to send them in for any servicing, and I have ~10,000 miles on mine in a little over a year.
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Re: Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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I've steered many friends away from these, siting the many complaints I've read online about them. I don't care how good their customer service is (or isn't), I'd rather have a product that doesn't require me to reach out to customer service in the first place. In addition to that, I've always seen pedals as a consumable bike part, they usually don't last forever.

Hope you get your issue resolved, and can then -sell- them and move on to a better product, like P2M cranks.
.02
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Re: Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah so this is the second Powertap P1 thread this morning reporting product and customer service issues. I've been saying nasty things about these pedals for a long time. Seems problems have only become worse for Powertap customers as the market for cycling power tech becomes increasingly saturated and new entrants drive down profits for the incumbent players. When is SRM following RacerMate out the door and is Powertap next?
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Re: Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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I bought my P1 pedals a few months ago, so far I haven't noticed any problems, but I didn't know about the 6 month coverage on bearings, and never thought it would be a $250 US charge for servicing them. This is outrageous. I kind'a wish I had gone with the Vector 3 or the Assiomas.
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Re: Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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they do seem to be getting more and more stringent with their customer service. i've had my P1 pedals replaced twice under warranty. the first time was within a year of them being released. the left one went dead and i had a race within a week and they overnighted me a new pair without so much as verifying anything.

the second time they started acting up saris customer service asked a ton more questions, were much more adamant about trying to troubleshoot them over the phone and even asked for proof of purchase before giving me an RMA number. mind you, this is for the replacement pair i got straight from them! even though it had been almost two years since i bought the first pair they warranty replaced them again.

i have a sinking feeling that if these start acting up that they won't be as kind next time given the drastic change I've seen in customer service and threads like this.

BUT so far they've been pretty good about keeping me riding so I can't complain much.
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Re: Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry to hear. This definitely contradicts my experience with Powertap as a (wheel) user since 2008.

I decided to go to a pedal system, and recently ordered the dual sided Vector 3's. It is my first Garmin product, and was hesitant to get away from Powertap. As a bike racer, though, I just didn't see how I could deal with the decreased cornering clearance of the Powertap pedals.

Stories like these remind me why I have at least 2 bikes, 2 power meters, etc at any given time. It's sad, but you just don't want to have your training jeopardized by a customer service/product fail.

Good luck!

-Physiojoe
Instagram: @thephysiojoe
Cycling coach, Elite racer on Wooster Bikewerks p/b Wootown Bagels
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Re: Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA [Physiojoe925] [ In reply to ]
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Physiojoe925 wrote:
Stories like these remind me why I have at least 2 bikes, 2 power meters, etc at any given time. It's sad, but you just don't want to have your training jeopardized by a customer service/product fail.

Its the first time in 8 years I've been with only 1 bike. Lesson learned?

"One Line Robert"
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Re: Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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Is replacing the bearings something that you could do yourself?

Not challenging your concerns, just asking if they are user serviceable.


.

Once, I was fast. But I got over it.
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Re: Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA [hblake] [ In reply to ]
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They are not.

After reading a bunch of threads on this - Powertap claims to use "proprietary bearings" and I believe has outlined it will void the warranty if attempted. Though, if you're already out of warranty, know the bearing size and are enterprising enough - I suppose you could try. What would it hurt?

I am not that though.

"One Line Robert"
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Re: Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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I've decided I'm moving back to Quarqs. I'm down to a single bike and the allure of the pedals were easy swapping between. But not interested in this type of warrany or customer service.

"One Line Robert"
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Re: Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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Also - just heard back from CS that my pedals should be picked up by FedEx by end of day and to me by tomorrow or Friday. Thats a plus at least...

"One Line Robert"
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Re: Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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I am lucky not to have any problems (have had them for 2.5years). One of the places I saw many people complaining about them, once you really looked through it, there were only a handful of people posting over and over again. Not saying there could be an issue that they have had.

Also, when I first bought mine, which was right when they cam out I am pretty sure the warranty just stated 2 years, I do not remember the 6month exception on bearings and spindle. I am obviously past all warranty on them at this point, so I guess it does not matter to me, but it would have if I had a problem.
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Re: Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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Your frustration seems reasonable. The fact that you can't ride your bike at all seems surprising, though--you don't have a pair of (non-power) pedals lying around?
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Re: Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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I had to have mine replaced twice in 2 years. But, they stepped up and took care of it so it was tolerable. After the 3rd started to flake and they did not work on the day of my IM, I went to Quarq.
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Re: Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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I realize you already ruled out servicing the bearing yourself but to answer you question What would it hurt? The answer is a lot which is also why the service is so expensive.

All the power based pedal systems use non-standard bearing systems because the spindle arm/pedal interface is critical to the power measurements. If you don't know what you are doing it would be easy to completely alter the power calibration curve or even kill the power portion of the system during the bearing service. The service charge is so high because it isn't a bench top job and should involve a factory re-calibration of strain gauge.

I am not justifying Powertap's response to the situation but it important to understand how complex the bearing service is on power pedals.
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Re: Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA [jazzymusicman] [ In reply to ]
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jazzymusicman wrote:
they do seem to be getting more and more stringent with their customer service. i've had my P1 pedals replaced twice under warranty. the first time was within a year of them being released. the left one went dead and i had a race within a week and they overnighted me a new pair without so much as verifying anything.

the second time they started acting up saris customer service asked a ton more questions, were much more adamant about trying to troubleshoot them over the phone and even asked for proof of purchase before giving me an RMA number. mind you, this is for the replacement pair i got straight from them! even though it had been almost two years since i bought the first pair they warranty replaced them again.

i have a sinking feeling that if these start acting up that they won't be as kind next time given the drastic change I've seen in customer service and threads like this.

BUT so far they've been pretty good about keeping me riding so I can't complain much.

I'm not saying this is what's happening with PowerTap/Saris but when warranty/replacement issues become more stringent it often means the company is losing a lot of money on warranties and replacements and are trying to reign in the costs.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA [scott8888] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah. I get that. But, 6 months. For brand new pedals - you get 6 months guarantee against the pedal and spindle. Plus $250, outside of that.

"One Line Robert"
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Re: Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA [niccolo] [ In reply to ]
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I do not - and even if I still did, they were all Shimanos. Which of course use a completely different cleat.

"One Line Robert"
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Re: Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA [scott8888] [ In reply to ]
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scott8888 wrote:
I realize you already ruled out servicing the bearing yourself but to answer you question What would it hurt? The answer is a lot which is also why the service is so expensive.

All the power based pedal systems use non-standard bearing systems because the spindle arm/pedal interface is critical to the power measurements. If you don't know what you are doing it would be easy to completely alter the power calibration curve or even kill the power portion of the system during the bearing service. The service charge is so high because it isn't a bench top job and should involve a factory re-calibration of strain gauge.

I am not justifying Powertap's response to the situation but it important to understand how complex the bearing service is on power pedals.


Not true of all pedal power meters, the Assioma UNO/DUO has user serviceable bearings ($41 for both pedals) and you can even buy the entire pedal body, including bearings and all the misc parts, and change them yourself for $61/per pedal!

FAQ
https://cycling.favero.com/faq-assioma

Pedal body
https://cycling.favero.com/...t-pedal-body-assioma
Last edited by: Tifosi01: Feb 8, 18 6:04
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Re: Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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Finally got my pedals back. And they even returned them in retail packaging.

Spin smooth. Look damn near brand new too. Looks like they swapped my battery cover to the latest version as well.

Its probably worth it for folks who own these things to literally set a reminder on their calendar every 5 months to ship them in for bearing service. To avoid the $250 charge. I'm being 100% serious. Or maybe the bearing thing is over blown and only an issue for the early adopters?

"One Line Robert"
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Re: Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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The combination of the new Garmin Vectors being released with a cleaner form factor, and getting good reviews, and the disconnect between Garmin's track record of very strong warranty support (assuming their warranty support for watches can be extrapolated to pedals) and Powertap's increasingly stringent enforcement of crummy warranty terms, paired with long-running apparent issues with the P1 bearings, seems like it's really going to hurt P1 sales (other than sponsored pros, who chooses P1 pedals over Garmin ones these days?), and probably also P2 sales, whenever the next iteration comes to market. It's always interesting to see companies make (what seem like) unforced errors like this.
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Re: Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA [niccolo] [ In reply to ]
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niccolo wrote:
The combination of the new Garmin Vectors being released with a cleaner form factor, and getting good reviews, and the disconnect between Garmin's track record of very strong warranty support (assuming their warranty support for watches can be extrapolated to pedals) and Powertap's increasingly stringent enforcement of crummy warranty terms, paired with long-running apparent issues with the P1 bearings, seems like it's really going to hurt P1 sales (other than sponsored pros, who chooses P1 pedals over Garmin ones these days?), and probably also P2 sales, whenever the next iteration comes to market. It's always interesting to see companies make (what seem like) unforced errors like this.
Agreed. I'm looking to pick up a pair of pedal-based power meters and have been debating between the P1s, Vector 3s and Assiomas. While I was initially drawn to the P1s based on their years of proven use, I'll admit this thread has turned me away a little bit from the P1s - plus, the Vector 3s and Assiomas have other benefits the P1s don't match anymore (namely more advanced metrics, better profile and lower price point in the case of the Assiomas).
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Re: Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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wsrobert wrote:
Finally got my pedals back. And they even returned them in retail packaging.

Spin smooth. Look damn near brand new too. Looks like they swapped my battery cover to the latest version as well.

Well, maybe they *are* new!
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Re: Powertap P1 - Warranty PSA [JonathanNYC] [ In reply to ]
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Comment from DCRainmaker:

“DC Rainmaker
February 9, 2018 at 10:08 am
In terms of orders to time in market ratio, as well as orders to competitors sold ratio. They’ve basically wiped the P1 pedals off the sales map in every channel I can account for. It’s literally as if the P1 doesn’t even exist anymore on sales reports I can see (which mirrors what I hear from retailers/etc elsewhere). That’s saying a lot, since the P1 dominated the pedals market the last few years. Like a light switch overnight.

And while Assioma is taking a piece of the pie these days, I’ve been surprised by how many people are going with Vector 3 due to purely looks.”

I'm closer to the feathered end of the spear than the point.
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