No idea - that is a strange one - I'm also generally curious as to the order chosen for the list... doesn't seem to follow any apparent order (alphabetical, kona bike count, market share etc.)

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Are you ready to do an Ultraman? | How I calculate Ironman race fueling | Strength Training for Athletes |

Ummm... you seem to know the answer to your own question. I think.

I'm surprised by just how little love Orbea and TriRig have received thus far.

I'm surprised by just how little love Orbea and TriRig have received thus far.


Some interesting trends developing so far!!

This is Slowtwitch and this is a snap-shot of right now, so need to take with a grain of salt, but knowing that it's interesting what I see so far.

Generally speaking business/brands in smaller niche businesses like this very often grossly over-estimate how well known their brand is. I always suggest the "100 random triathletes in a room test" - if 75 or more know about your brand - you are doing OK - to very well. But if you are less then 50 - you have a LONG way to go with the marketing!

I was just at a marketing conference and that average number of times that someone needs to be exposed to a brand to make a move or be influenced by that brand is now up to 12!! As our world get's busy, more hectic and noisy - that number keeps going up!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

It's a joke. Dan made a typo, but an ironic one (in my mind) considering how much love Premier gets on this forum.

Also, would you expect TR and Orbea to be among the more popular brands? That'd be a reach..

Popular? No, but I was expecting >0%! The current Orbea is a really nice bike IMO. The only design aspect I don't like about it is the 1" steerer tube but that's not the end of the world.

That 12 number is relatively arbitrary, and also assumes that an impression = 1 impression. But, as we all know...effective marketing can take place in as many or as few touchpoints as necessary.

I do think that it's a mistake for many brands to be pulling back on the marketing dollars in challenging headwinds. Sure, it's easier to try and justify versus making more difficult budgeting decisions (e.g., headcount), but in this environment, you need to be making sure that you're staying top of mind.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I do think that it's a mistake for many brands to be pulling back on the marketing dollars in challenging headwinds. Sure, it's easier to try and justify versus making more difficult budgeting decisions (e.g., headcount), but in this environment, you need to be making sure that you're staying top of mind.

Excellent point, Ryan - In "challenging times" often marketing is the first thing cut. That's tactically, wrong - read on for a bit.

Back in the 1990's, I think it was at the Outdoor Retailer show I went to a Marketing Talk being given by one of the Senior VP's of Marketing from Nike. He said - in challenging times - that's when Nike UPS is marketing game - does more spends more! Why? - that's when you can get maximum ROI and market share for dollar spent on marketing. He used a running analogy (naturally). In a running race, if you are running along and you look around and everyone is really suffering, and looking bad - that's the time to make your move. You'll break them, and put more time into them at this point. Contrast that when if you look around and everyone is looking and feeling good - they'll counter everyone of your surges/moves - you'll have spent all that energy and really not done anything relative to your competition!!


Companies and brands that don't get the above, tend to spend more on marketing and business development when the times are good, and they get less return and ROI for it. This becomes a vicious cycle as they'll then say - "The marketing, whatever it was did nothing" - so they'll cut back. and then cut back even more when the times are tight, and they suffer for it!!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

You might be on to something. You could write the "Moneyball" of sports marketing. Although I'm sure marketing is already full of analytics - it just strikes me as more voodoo than science.

You would be amazed at how easy it is to actually put measurement behind this stuff. And you'd be amazed at how few people actually use those measurement tools.

Drives me nuts.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

You might be on to something. You could write the "Moneyball" of sports marketing. Although I'm sure marketing is already full of analytics


Part of the analytics are right there in that poll. Yes, it's just a snap-shot - but it's saying right now, how many people have been influenced by what brands!

Some interesting observations:

That Cervelo is #1 is of no surprise. But they are not crushing it!

Another really interesting one is Canyon - a bike that's not even available in North America yet! (Don't know exactly where voters are from, but I know the vast majority of people on Slowtwitch are North American based)

Someone had previously mentioned Orbea and TriRig - and surprised at their lack of popularity. TriRig for one, get's chatted up here on the forum regularly. We don't know who is voting - regular forum participants, lurkers or others. TriRig SEEMS popular on the forum, but try the "Put 100 triathletes in a room" random test on TriRig next time you are in a big crowd of triathletes? Nothing against TriRig - but even here on Slowtwitch in a supposedly warm and friendly environment for them - there numbers are "low".

Felt and Trek do well because they have good product, "presence", and good distribution. Some times the good old fashioned basics work!

Surprised that Specialized numbers are not higher - sometimes being a "bigger" brand is not helpful in niche markets.

Dimond for a newer company, that sells a small number of bikes direct, has done "well".

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Drives me nuts.

Me to, Ryan!

I sell an opportunity that could be helpful, and "No thanks" is a very popular answer from many brands in the triathlon space! :)

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Where is the button for "happy with my old bike and not planning to buy in the foreseeable future"?

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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Any time our bike is mentioned in a post I feel like I need to contribute. We truly are trying to be a company for you - the athlete working hard to better your results.

I saw the type - o as well. However just being included is reward enough.

Anyway - a few thoughts as I am awake at 2:25 pm US west coast time. Just arrived in Taiwan (am time) for a big bike bike show and will surely fall a sleep mid day tomorrow.

The PremierBike Tactical is an un believable bike. We exceeded our expectations and the feedback has been great. Thank you,

One point - our production inventory bike has been delayed a bit which is something that has bothered me a lot. I am bringing back a few bikes to meet some obligations - but even that has been a fight. I know at least two other small brand bikes and one big brand bike company that is delayed. I want to get to the bottom of that while I am here. If business generally is flat why are we fighting to to get production?

I was thinking it was just small producers like Premier but some big guys plans to take over the US market have been delayed twice ... so I will try and see what is what.

PremierBike has got some big things in the next months happening that will have impact on our company. I believe in our engineering; I know how fast the bike is, how great the bike looks and what we have done so I don't back off of things like 1). the up-coming wind tunnel testes with Tactical, Dimondback, Ventuim etc. 2). our sponsorship of Storm The Castle in the UK and just as important our bike performance in that race 3; what happens with our sponsorship with DelMoSports 5 events including Ironman 70.3.

My goal was to give you a fantastic bike (faster than the rest) at a very competitive price and we have done that but now we need to show you some results.

Disruption is a good thing.

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

Traditional media, Fleck. C'mon now. :)

That being said - brand awareness impact comes in many flavors. Canyon's benefitted a lot from having a disruptive distribution model and having a top athlete on board the bike.

Specialized isn't going to perform to par here because they haven't put a new product out in the last six years, especially against the Felt/Cervelo/Trek combo that has proven itself to be quite quick.

The lesson: marketing budgets can be as large as you want, but product is still king.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

That being said - brand awareness impact comes in many flavors. Canyon's benefitted a lot from having a disruptive distribution model and having a top athlete on board the bike.

Ryan,

As I mentioned, the Canyon numbers are perhaps the most interesting from the poll - considering they don't officially have bikes for sale yet in North America (but will according to recent trade news by Q3).

The winning and the performance of Jan Frodeno has certainly helped with the profile, and with their business model, of direct selling, there is been a lot of talk in the both the trade and consumer bike media about the brand. That's been helpful.

Begs the question - what is the attraction here? The bike (product) or the way it's going to be sold?

If I were the other bike brands, and the triathlon bike market was really important to me, I would be watching what's going on here (with Canyon) very carefully!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

They have a couple of things going for them:

• Product - looks like it ticks the boxes checked by Scott with the Plasma 3, Trek's Speed Concept, and Felt's IA. Also adds integration.
• Distribution model - consumer direct convenience helps.
• Landed Frodo

None of those things work without one another. Think Diamondback, for instance:

• Compelling new product (Andean) and an underrated frame in the Serios
• Distribution model - consumer direct! And Custom Studio is a stroke of f'n genius.
• Athletes: well, unfortunately, most of the press surrounds Michi and his past, rather than talking about the more compelling stories with Jordan, Rachel, etc.

I don't think we'll go fully direct to consumer *yet*, if only because there are some other hurdles to that. But it is going to be a disruptive force, and the early adopters are going to take more of the marketshare. And considering ST tends to be ahead of the bell curve...it's unsurprising to me to see them so high on the listing.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

The PremierBike Tactical is an un believable bike. We exceeded our expectations and the feedback has been great. Thank you,

Dan,

Kudos to your success. You've REALLY thought this out - front to back.

I hope that you will not be offended by this - while it may seem that your offering is "normal", as I just said, all the little details about your offering have been thought through, and refined to give the customer extraordinary value for what they are getting. In a market that is converging in samness - those little details start to become very important!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

sorry about the typo! maybe it was autocorrect that i just didn't catch, or maybe just too much traveling and not enough sleep. but. fixed!

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

There's a lot of truth to this. My dad has spent ~35 years in marketing. Marketing and IT are really similar in this aspect. There's the joke with IT where the boss says "Hey, all the servers are down! What am I paying you for?!" but then if the servers have all been running smoothly the boss would say "Hey, all the servers are running flawlessly, what do I need you for?!"

I probably butchered the actual phrasing, but hopefully the point comes across. Marketing is similar where I've heard my dad complain his marketing budget gets cut because his company was happy with the results my dad gave in a year and wanted to see what he could do with less because the industry has been struggling as a whole. This was in an industry where most players at the time were going down but my dads brand was remaining steady and even increasing market share.

Anyway, I'm not too surprised by the poll except found Canyon to be interesting. I know the hype of getting Canyon in the U.S. is probably contributing to that--I had just not considered that before I looked at the results. I guess I didn't realize Quintanna Roo was so high on some people's lists either.

It seems that the turnover has slowed in general, though, not just Specialized. TT/Tri bikes are being updated much less frequently than their corresponding road bikes. I think the S5 has been updated twice since the P5 came out. (I don't count the P5x, which I consider a boutique niche product like the R5Ca).

You can bet that the majority of those Canyon voters are European; don't forget that the question is "most likely to buy next" and not "would like to buy", and you can't get this bike in the US. Being in Europe, I'm almost certainly looking at Canyon. Not least because they actually publish geometry tables that use pad x/y, and also because it is one of the few "super" bikes on the market that I can make my alien long and low position on.

Tririg I bet have suffered due to a couple of the threads on here - namely the frame flex thread and the reported problems with the brake cover. Whether that is fair is another question, but it is negative chat and that can have an effect whether justified or not.

Cervelo - meh. Some of the poo poo that has come out of Cervelo lately like that white paper is probably putting people off, and the P5X is divisive to say the least. I'm sure if you plot Dan's x/y chart as a frequency distribution you'd find that Cervelo are doing a good job of looking after the fat part of the bell curve, but some of the discerning readers here won't be sold by their move towards leisure geometry and the smoke and mirrors marketing behind that fugly new bike. Here, look how much faster our bike is when you strap a picnic basket to the closest competitor.

Felt and Trek will always have their followers in the states, being homegrown, and it is good that they should do so.

I'm surprised Ventum didn't fare a wee bit better, the hydration storage is actually interesting to me and I don't hate the design after they moved away from the open-mould fork. Possibly damaged by the back-and-forth over the Faster tunnel testing.

QR a surprise to me too, good for those guys.

But actually I'm more in the sticking-with-what-I-have because notwithstanding what I just said about Cervelo, the P3C is a bloody great bike, and I just don't buy into a lot of the recent marketing stuff. No point buying a superbike if I have to butcher the integrated front end (the whole point of a superbike) to make it fit my position, and if I compromise my position to fit on something that might save me 5 watts there is a good chance it's going to cost me 15.

I guess the low Specialized numbers is because Specialized seems to be out of the triathlon market right now. I bet if there was rumors of a new Shiv coming, that number might be higher.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

You can bet that the majority of those Canyon voters are European; don't forget that the question is "most likely to buy next" and not "would like to buy", and you can't get this bike in the US. Being in Europe, I'm almost certainly looking at Canyon. Not least because they actually publish geometry tables that use pad x/y, and also because it is one of the few "super" bikes on the market that I can make my alien long and low position on.


Dan would know the numbers( I think) where the votes are coming from. And yes, some of those voters for Canyon were from Europe. However, I do know that a big majority of Slowtwitch "subscribers" and forum participants and viewers are from North America! So take a few percentage points off the Canyon number, and that's still looking good!

If you are true long and low, Premium may be worth a look. My understanding is, they took the original Cervelo geometry from a long time ago and brought it back!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Another thing that Canyon has going for it currently is the inability for folks in the US to buy one easily. They're now for the excusive few which builds intrigue. Strangely enough, I think they're popularity in the states will level off a little once anyone can ride one here.