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Polar V800 - Ask me anything
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Last edited by: ChrisZ: May 19, 15 10:52
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Re: Polar V800 - Ask me anything [Chris@Polar] [ In reply to ]
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Good question from another thread:

Quote:
a) do they think BTLE will get wide acceptance in the very near future.
b) do they think some of the bridge technology will solve the problem.
c) do they think Ant+ Power meters are not that common and most people are going by HR.


a) We strongly believe Bluetooth Smart is the future..
b) Could be for sure..
c) For sure power meters running ANT+ are the majority. No getting around that. But we're seeing more power sensors going BT Smart, or dual chip. And also there are ANT+ > Bluetooth Bridges like the 4iiii's Viiivo that could potentially make this a non issue anyway.
Last edited by: Chris@Polar: Jun 11, 14 13:26
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Re: Polar V800 - Ask me anything [Chris@Polar] [ In reply to ]
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> supporting for a more open ecosystem of sensors and devices

I have a 4iiii Viiiiva HR belt and from a user comment on DCR's testreport I see that the V800 can not run the R-R, Fitness and Orthostatic test with the Viiiiva, you need a H7. The Viiiiva measures HRV, so AFAIK it should be possible.

An open ecosystem means support for sensors from other manufacturers. Are you working with 4iiii to get this fixed?
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Re: Polar V800 - Ask me anything [Chris@Polar] [ In reply to ]
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Chris, thanks for starting this thread.

I do appreciate your openness. Hopefully, like other "Official xxxxx thread" started by vendors, people will be civil and not just bash a product that seems to have huge potential.

I believe all the features will fall in place. As long as you have a quality hardware platform, software is just a matter of time.

The watch, doesn't have the Ant+ platform, so for me, that one is riskier. Even with an infinite budget (which I don't have) I can't get a two legged, crank based power meter with BT.

The one thing that concerns me most is whether the bridging technology really works. If yes, maybe Ant+ is a non issue
But I get mixed messages from people that there are data drops, that multiple devices at once won't work.....
I know it's new technology and has some bugs to be worked out, but is Polar going to test and certify it some way.

Has someone in your labs confirmed it works ?
Is 4iiii working with you guys ?
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Re: Polar V800 - Ask me anything [acco] [ In reply to ]
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acco wrote:
>

An open ecosystem means support for sensors from other manufacturers. Are you working with 4iiii to get this fixed?

We're not working with 4iiii's

We follow standardized Bluetooth Smart profiles for all sensors in the V800. We can really only guarantee the R-R based features in the V800 work with the Polar Bluetooth Smart HR sensors though. Mainly because even if a heart rate sensor claims to have R-R data, the quality of that data may be in question.
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Re: Polar V800 - Ask me anything [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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marcag wrote:
But I get mixed messages from people that there are data drops, that multiple devices at once won't work.....
I know it's new technology and has some bugs to be worked out, but is Polar going to test and certify it some way.

Has someone in your labs confirmed it works ?
Is 4iiii working with you guys ?

I reworded my point above to be clear. We haven't tested a bridge - but the concept could have potential and solve some needs.
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Re: Polar V800 - Ask me anything [Chris@Polar] [ In reply to ]
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Chris:

Love the watch. It is what I'm looking for. I have my swim training sets and master swim - so i can live without the metrics for now as the training load provides a much greater value than a watch telling me about my split. I use a pace clock for that.

1) Will the upcoming power meter update for the watch make any changes to the training load on the watch or website? Does it add anything of value other than recording what power I held for the ride?
2) On the recovery screen where it shows "very strained, strained, balance" - what exactly does balance represent?
3) Can you give an example of what a "paid upgrade" would be?
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Re: Polar V800 - Ask me anything [BreadPudding] [ In reply to ]
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BreadPudding wrote:

1) Will the upcoming power meter update for the watch make any changes to the training load on the watch or website? Does it add anything of value other than recording what power I held for the ride?
2) On the recovery screen where it shows "very strained, strained, balance" - what exactly does balance represent?
3) Can you give an example of what a "paid upgrade" would be?

1) Training Load is dependent on the input - not output. What you put into the work.. So no. ;0)
2) Balanced means just that, not undertrained - but well recovered from a workout. Here's a good write up on it and how it works: http://www.polar.com/...atures_in_polar_flow
3) Too early to say.. We're focused right now on what we promised. We'll get to that after we deliver
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Re: Polar V800 - Ask me anything [Chris@Polar] [ In reply to ]
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You could let them know what kind of data and level of quality you need to perform the tests. Especially since 4iiii could play a major role in getting you Ant+ support through the bridge function in the Viiiiva. Something to win for both of you IMHO. Ant+ speed/cadence sensors work just fine already, I hear, using the Viiiiva and a V800.
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Re: Polar V800 - Ask me anything [Chris@Polar] [ In reply to ]
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First off kudos for kicking this off, its great to see companies embrace these forums for Q&A, and feedback. Coming in with a technology background I understand the software development cycle. No software would ever get released if we had to wait for all the features to be implemented day one.

That said with the majority of power meters supporting ANT+ why not a dual chip device to bridge the gap? Future proof is great but backwards compatibility is as important. It's a lot to expect that consumers will purchase a $1500+ power meter with BTLE or a bridge device just so they can buy a V800.


Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca
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Re: Polar V800 - Ask me anything [Chris@Polar] [ In reply to ]
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Any comments on DCR's observation that the heart rate strap has a very hard time staying in place while swimming? Also, does the swim metric update include open water functionality/distance tracking?

Lastly, I use RaceDay Apollo as my main training software, which allows me to upload TCX files easily. Would I be able to import my workouts from the V800 into Apollo just as easily?
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Re: Polar V800 - Ask me anything [cloesch] [ In reply to ]
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cloesch wrote:
Any comments on DCR's observation that the heart rate strap has a very hard time staying in place while swimming? Also, does the swim metric update include open water functionality/distance tracking?

Lastly, I use RaceDay Apollo as my main training software, which allows me to upload TCX files easily. Would I be able to import my workouts from the V800 into Apollo just as easily?

1) Strap staying in place is a weird thing. So dependent on body type/build. You just have to experiment with a few things to get the right position, or wear a tri top.

2) Swim Metric update includes OWS stuff at the same time

3) The export should be just as easy once it's implemented. User experience with our new platform is almost #1 priority
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Re: Polar V800 - Ask me anything [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
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rbuike wrote:
why not a dual chip device to bridge the gap? Future proof is great but backwards compatibility is as important.

Totally get your point. But can't really comment on this completely. We see BT Smart as the future, we're simply moving forward.
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Re: Polar V800 - Ask me anything [Chris@Polar] [ In reply to ]
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I really would like a QR system for the bike leg on a tri, will you start selling one? The generic watch holder is not that good for this purpose.
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Re: Polar V800 - Ask me anything [acco] [ In reply to ]
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acco wrote:
You could let them know what kind of data and level of quality you need to perform the tests. Especially since 4iiii could play a major role in getting you Ant+ support through the bridge function in the Viiiiva. Something to win for both of you IMHO.


+1

This would remove the biggest FUD your competitors are going to throw out : "It doesn't work with the most popular power meters out there"

acco wrote:
Ant+ speed/cadence sensors work just fine already, I hear, using the Viiiiva and a V800.


If I look at DC's review on the viiiva, he seems to say it works fine when you are only transmitting 1 piece of info, ie hr OR power OR cadence
The minute you try to send both, the viiiva uses mutiple data channels that the App (in this case the V800) needs to be able to understand. I doubt the V800 has been updated to do this

So it sounds like cadence+power wouldn't work.

That's how I understood it, maybe I am way off. But it sounds like it is something Polar could/should test.

DC or Chris, did I get this right ?


It would also be nice to see a list of other potential bridges. Wahoo was supposed to deliver one with it RFLT+ or something like that.
Last edited by: marcag: Jun 11, 14 14:49
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Re: Polar V800 - Ask me anything [Chris@Polar] [ In reply to ]
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Boxers or briefs?

(hey - you said anything)
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Re: Polar V800 - Ask me anything [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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marcag wrote:
If I look at DC's review on the viiiva, he seems to say it works fine when you are only transmitting 1 piece of info, ie hr OR power OR cadence
The minute you try to send both, the viiiva uses mutiple data channels that the App (in this case the V800) needs to be able to understand. I doubt the V800 has been updated to do this

So it sounds like cadence+power wouldn't work.

That's how I understood it, maybe I am way off. But it sounds like it is something Polar could/should test.

DC or Chris, did I get this right ?

It depends.

To multichannel something the app/device has to know how to handle that. 4iiii's started with their own channeling, but then moved to something a bit more open. I don't know if that open matches the spec per se though. The BLE spec does allow multiple channels from a single sensor.

In my testing with the V800, I used Viiiiva in a non-HR config purely to test a few common sensors (cycling, running), but did not test the HR piece. I can try tomorrow on a trainer a bit. For the other sensors, I put those in a table as far as current compatibility with the V800/Viiiiva combo.


-
My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com
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Re: Polar V800 - Ask me anything [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]
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What is the technology used to measure free living activity? Does it rely solely on an accelerometer, or do you have additional sensors to improve accuracy, such as GSR or skin temperature?

Have you verified the accuracy versus a gold standard for calorie burn (like Doubly labeled water)? How do you determine sleep, and does it require pressing a button to tell the watch when you are trying to sleep or have woken up?

Are the algorithms accessable continuously without presence of a phone or does it require communication via an API to process raw data?


_____________________
Don't forget to attack!
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Re: Polar V800 - Ask me anything [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]
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dcrainmaker wrote:

It depends.

To multichannel something the app/device has to know how to handle that. 4iiii's started with their own channeling, but then moved to something a bit more open. I don't know if that open matches the spec per se though. The BLE spec does allow multiple channels from a single sensor.

In my testing with the V800, I used Viiiiva in a non-HR config purely to test a few common sensors (cycling, running), but did not test the HR piece. I can try tomorrow on a trainer a bit. For the other sensors, I put those in a table as far as current compatibility with the V800/Viiiiva combo.

Ray, thanks for adding your input

In your testing did you ever multi-channel ? I know you did Spd/Cad, but is that multi-channel ?

Also, do you know of other bridges ?
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Re: Polar V800 - Ask me anything [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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I didn't multichannel with Viiiiva, but I'll do some tomorrow during my trainer ride.

There are currently no other bridges on the market, but, I expect that'll change rather shortly.


-
My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com
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Re: Polar V800 - Ask me anything [Chris@Polar] [ In reply to ]
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I'm very interested in seeing if there is going to be an option implemented to allow use of a footpod to act as a cadence/speed source, while using GPS for distance? I see there is the auto calibrate but it currently doesn't seem to work, at least with my adidas footpod. Is this a current bug or will it only be working with the Polar footpod?
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Re: Polar V800 - Ask me anything [profanum429] [ In reply to ]
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Your price point seems extremely high compared 910xt, which I'm assuming is your target competition. Given the fact V800 doesn't work with many power meters, is missing many functions, I'm not sure what the rationale was for pricing it so high or releasing so soon.

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
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Re: Polar V800 - Ask me anything [Chris@Polar] [ In reply to ]
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First let me say that Iíve had the V800 for 10 days now and am loving it.

Iím sure some of these will be addressed in the future updates, but figured Iíd ask about them now. They are mostly related to the Polar Flow.
1) I have never seen sleep data. I have looked in the diary were supposedly it would be reported for the Loop but canít find anything. Is this information not currently tracked by the V800? Also, if I get extra sleep will the training load adjust down proportionately and vic versa?

2) In the progress tab do you think Polar will make it so different sport are different colors in the bar graph? Also will it be possible to select multiple sports, but not all? (this is just the way Iím use to looking a cumulative training over time).

3) Do you think it will be possible to create your own training plan in Polar Flow by the end of this year. Currently the ďAdd Training TargetĒ seems to be the only way to add a planned workout to the calendar and itís just too inefficient/ineffective to outline upcoming months of training.

I have many more question but will stop there for now. Thanks again for being a part of this message board.
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Re: Polar V800 - Ask me anything [Chris@Polar] [ In reply to ]
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I had the V800 on pre-order - I thought I knew all the shortcomings and was prepared to wait for updates to address them; I even was going to change power meter to Stages.
Upon reading that the Adidas foot-pod is not fully supported I immediately cancelled my order.

Is there a plan to:

a) Fix this

or

b) Do something with Polar's own footpod? You were the first in the industry to have one and now your one is the biggest!


#######
My Blog
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Re: Polar V800 - Ask me anything [Chris@Polar] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Chris

Many thanks for opening this thread.

My V800 arrived yesterday and I'm glad that the recent criticism (some of it fair, some excessive) of the device didn't persuade me to cancel my order. The design and build-quality are excellent- a real step-change from HRMs of the past- and I found setup trouble-free. Obviously, I've only just begun to test it, but everything has worked well so far and synchronising with iOS devices is all but effortless.

A couple of quick questions:

1. The GPS issue. When DC Rainmaker took his first look at the V800 its GPS acquisition was "awesome", but it seems to have deteriorated as the firmware has been updated. Any thoughts on this?

2. Although I intend to use the H7 strap for the lion's share of my training, it would be useful to use an optical sensor (e.g., a Mio Link) occasionally. Will this disrupt recovery calculations?

A couple of opinions:

1. As Polar is championing bluetooth (rather than ANT), it would be good to see greater support of third party devices. (My inclination is to buy Polar add-ons, but not slavishly. I already own the Adidas foot pod.)

2. Although the V800 is designed for athletes, it is surely likely to appeal to health-conscious/ design-conscious customers planning to take exercise more seriously, too. So, shouldn't it offer full Loop functionality as well as the recovery data?

Thank you in advance for the webinar,

Avispon
Last edited by: Avispon: Jun 12, 14 2:22
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