Chris,

Is there a way to add a workout into Flow that you didn't use the V800 / heartrate monitor for? For instance, a master's swim class that you didn't use heartrate for?

I've had mine for a week now. It's great. I would just like to use the undertrained/trained/strained/very strained stuff a bit more with workouts that I didn't use the v800 for.

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-"Bottom line, it's the Hunter, not the arrow. Ride what you want."

http://fulltriathlonracing.blogspot.com/

Have been using the V800 for a week now and I really like it! Most things work really well and if Polar keeps their promises on Android Support, Power support and swimming mode(s) this watch will be awesome.

Here's my TODO-List for Polar:

• FEATURES:


• Android Support (Specifically syncing with Flow) [scheduled for end of 2014 - come on!?! why so late....]
  
• Powermeter Support (Specifically Stages) including relevant data fields and Flow-Features for analysis [scheduled for early Sept]
  
• Better accuracy for swimming GPS [scheduled for later 2014]
  
• Running cadence without footpod
• Incline with GPS-only
• Indoor swimming metrics [scheduled for Oct]
• Data Export [scheduled for Sept]
  
• GPS recording mode between Normal and Power Save - should last for ~ 17-20h (if technically possible)
• Support for selecting bikes/shoes and aggregating statistics (totals mostly) per gear-item

• USABILITY / SMALL STUFF


• Pause in Free Multisport without going into transition mode (which causes a new segment in recording upon restart)
• Option to automatically create a lap for every phase in phased workouts
• Ability to go from Autopause into manual Pause
• Ability to configure which fields are displayed in Lap-summary view
• Field for remaining battery
• Merge of planned vs completed workouts on watch diary

• FLOW platform


• Privacy setting "Anyone with the link"
• Route planning (+ a good way to help follow the route on watch - eg. alarm if leaving route + arrow back to route...) [scheduled for End of 2014]
• Mouse over summary (Dist, Time, Avg HR) of training session in Diary
• Drag and Drop reordering of Training Views
• Google Calendar support for planned workouts
  

Chris: Can you comment on any of the things that are not scheduled so far if you think they might eventually become reality?

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if you can read this
YOU'RE DRAFTING!

1.0.10 is out, but no Release Notes yet. Would really appreciate if you would publish them at the same time you publish the update.

OK, this is not going to happen and here's why:
Link to original Post in Polar Forum.

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if you can read this
YOU'RE DRAFTING!

I wanted to share something that I thought was important. I hear a lot of issues regarding poor heart rate reception during the swim, and some reasoning that this could be to do with water, wetsuits or gps interference (amongst others), however I am not sure any of these things are to blame.

Quite simply - if I use the watch in 5kHz mode - it does not work at arm's length, and that's that.

How to test this? Well, since the BLTE re-broadcasting (still) doesn't work - the only way to use a second Bluetooth device is to have the other device connect to the H7 first, then when you start the activity on the V800 it will use the secondary 5kHz signal. E.g. start the runkeeper app on a phone (or any BTLE HR app), and you see the little heart flashing. Next start an exercise on the V800 - so far so good. Now try to hold the V800 at arms length, or place it in a bike mount... Boom, no heart rate. Start to bring it back closer to the chest and yep, it comes back - every time.

Turn off runkeeper and stop the exercise - now start the exercise on the V800 first. Fire up runkeeper now and there is no little heart flashing - the V800 has "taken" the BTLE signal and there isn't another one for the phone to use, so no dice. However, now the V800 can pick up my heartrate from across the room.

So - conclusion, how would anyone expect swimming to work with arms extended, when it doesn't even work standing still with arm extended? I guess a "workaround" would be tape the v800 to your chest or something, maybe tuck it under the wetsuit a few inches from the H7?

I love this watch, but like with all loving relationships that just amplifies the disappointments. I also have problems with the stride sensor, I had the s3+ and my rs800cx working nicely together, super accurate - but this new one? It's wildly different every time - even on the same runs in the same conditions. Which wouldn't be so bad except you can't bloody edit/correct anything afterwards! Go into flow and you can "correct" the distance but everything else stays the same (pace info, calories, running index etc.). I've used it on about 10 runs now - manually calibrating every time and trying desperately to get it working, but I think I'm going to have to leave it off in future. What an expensive waste. Giving the option to use gps for pace/distance would at least get it back on my foot.

Did you test this with version 1.0.10, which is actually suppose to fix this particular problem?

Yes - I was looking forward to 1.0.10 but it didn't help. If I understand the update correctly, it only addresses the watch bouncing between BTLE and 5kHz mode whilst swimming - it should just stick to 5kHz mode all the time.

Just for "fun" - I tried something else. I dug out my old s625x which also uses 5kHz and it works at arm's length with the H7, so I can successfully get a reading on the V800 and s625x at the same time (V800 using BTLE and s625X using 5kHz).

If I fire up Runkeeper first (I also tried with a free app called "BLE Heart rate monitor") then start the s625x and V800, all 3 work until I extend my arm, then the V800 loses signal, whereas the other 2 keep ticking along. I can even hold the s625x in my fingertips, a good 8 inches further away than the V800 and it still reads my heart rate, whilst the V800 is flatlining.

Bend my arm slightly bringing the V800 closer, and it regains the signal.

I am of above average height, so maybe my bent arm is a similar distance away from my chest as the majority of fully extended arms - which could be why not everyone is reporting the same results. Anyway, it's pretty shocking that my watch from 10 years ago can pick up a signal that a current "modern" device can't. It's a Finnish company, so maybe it's a sisu thing (thinking of the Nokia story).

Sounds strange that the marginal would be that small. I need to test this, tomorrow. 6'2" myself, with a positive ape index, so we'll see. I wonder if they can adjust the receiver with software and improve this. Did you test this using a swim profile on the V800, btw?

I don't know if this has been brought up in this particular thread, but its something that I wanted to reiterate. I have been using the V800 for a little over a week now and I really like it. I'm looking forward to all the updates coming in the following months. I think its an extremely well made piece of equipment and everything feels very smooth. I also like that I can upload my workouts to polar flow via my phone right after the workout.

I had the RCX5 before the V800 which had the same issue but its slightly better with the V800, which is the lack of ability to see a summary of your workout while its paused. It is RIDICULOUS to me that this was not included in the V800. It seems so incredibly simple. When you pause, you should just be able to hit the up or down button to see a summary of the workout to that point. At least compared to the RCX5, I can see my heart rate while its paused but not being able to see the summary is asinine. I think DCR even mentioned that flaw in his review and I just dont understand why Polar is so reluctant to add such a simple feature that seems so basic. Sorry about the rant, but from the moment I opened the box I was hoping the functionality would be there because it frustrated me so much with the RCX5. Otherwise I really do love the V800 and look forward to future updates.

The distance between my V800 and the H7 measures 65 cm when my hand is fully extended above my head. At least this distance is not a problem in the pool as I was swimming yesterday for an hour and fifteen minutes without even a single drop in the HR. I have not tested it with a swimsuit though with this new 1.0.10.

Same thing here. Tested successfully 20 min freestyle in swimming pool. GPS was off and I was using 1.0.10. I am 6' and I don't think I have too short arms... :-)

Well, BLE HR to iPhone/Runkeeper and V800 (1.0.10) on wrist on straight arm above head at 80 cm (31") distance from top of HR transmitter to middle of watch didn't drop HR. BUT watch at fingertip distance of about 100 cm (39") drops HR after a few seconds, every time. No drop in Runkeeper, so it's not a problem with the belt. Using the swim profile in the V800 and wearing a technical shirt. Wetsuit and water might obviously affect the results, but I don't have the possibility to test that at the moment. Anyway thanks for bringing this up, rooster_russ.

Polar, is it even possible to fix this in software or is it purely HW related? I'm not exceptionally tall, so this is a real problem IMHO.

Just done another test using the swim profile, and this time the V800 BLE receiver doesn't even come on - only the 5kHz (as I suspected from the firmware update), which means at least I can test this without firing up a mobile app first.

Unfortunately I still get the same - only about 40cm before it flatlines, whereas the s625x can go to about 80cm.
I'll try with a brand new battery in the H7 next - it could be that the signal is just too weak (and the 625 is just a better receiver) - although this doesn't bode well if there always has to be a fresh battery for it to work.

Just to clarify anyway - I don't actually swim with the watch (yet), the only reason this is important to me is because the BLE re-broadcasting that the V800 is supposed to do does not work, and since it's not ANT+ only one device can use the H7 signal at a time. The V800 is supposed to fix this by bouncing a new signal back out for additional devices to use, but as yet this does not seem to work. When this is fixed - I'm not actually going to care that much about the 5kHz signal at all, since I'll just use the BLE on both devices (phone plus watch). And - when the exporting from Flow is fixed, I'll care even less - because then I'll be able to just use one device (the V800), and connect everything else from it. So... A chain of fails that causes a problem for me, and several potential fixes.

I've uploaded a (rather crappy) video to demonstrate the signal loss side-by-side with the s625x. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U0eRhhubVQ

These are the same symptoms that I described a few days ago, although my setup was with the iSmoothrun app on iPhone 4S, not Runkeeper. @Lokiwthor also commented on this on June 26. In my case however, the 5Ghz HR signal would strangely reappear on the V800 after a few kms and then stay mostly stable. at least with firmware v 1.08. I did a run yesterday with 1.0.10 and that was worse ( got HR signal on the V800 for only 20 minutes out of the 57 of my run). By the way, I also noticed an impact on GPS accuracy after the update to v 1.0.10. Same exact course length 10.02km, had been measured 9.99/10.03/10.04 by the V800 with firmware 1.0.8 on 3 previous runs, and suddently 10.12km yesterday with v 1.0.10. Not much, but the V800 had so far impressed me with GPS accuracy, which I overall found spot on and certainly better than my Garmin FR 910XT. So ... putting all those symptoms together made me wonder if this couldn't come from an internal clock speed/sync problem when sampling together too many sensors, or worst the processor just struggling to cope.

Chris, by the way, sent you 3 days ago all details on the various runs as shown on my PolarFlow account and tcx files recorded from iSmoothrun, but didn't get any reaction.

The other problem reported, i.e. average lap pace being displayed erroneously (average WORKOUT pace is displayed instead) hasn't either been corrected by firmware v 1.0.10.

Is there a real chance that you guys can correct those issues through firmware update, and if so when, or will you eventually need to recall all devices ?

Besides, the key reason for me to be forced to use 5 GHz link is because there is no export facility in Flow yet. As I cannot stop analyzing my training progress with SportTracks, I must find another way to record. Hence the mandatory use of an iPhone app through Smart BLE and of the 5Ghz link for the V800. Couldn't you really field sometime like just now even a Beta utility to export tcx files ? I cannot imagine a second that all the top athletes which are endorsing the V800, nor than their coaches, can accept not being able to analyze their workouts. And this can certainly not be with Polar Flow as it is, for it is missing a lot of the most basic functionalities ... although it has several nice looking social-network oriented features.

I maybe just venting out some frustration here, but frankly I just wonder how you guys at Polar could launch the V800 with such issues not tested and at same time Export not ready ...

Thanks to this thread I will be buying a Fenix2

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"Base training is bull shit" - desertdude

This could be normal Gps variation though. I got 1.59 and 1.60 km on an officially measured 1.575 km loop with 1.0.8 and 1.60 km with 1.0.10 today. No change there.


Really, hadn't noticed that, seems like an easy thing to fix. And important.


I have only had my V800 for a few days now and have been comparing it to my TomTom Multisport, using both at the same time. As I'm completely addicted to Strava, I've been thinking that I need to use 2 watches, for months, as the TT exports directly to Strava. Well, didn't do much of the thinking part obviously as I hadn't yet realized that this is of course the way to do it. BLE to the Strava app and 5 Khz to the V800. Thanks for mentioning it :-)

Hi Acco,


Yes, I do take back my comment re GPS accuracy with the new 1.0.10 firmware. Today same exact course in an interval training session was measured 10.04km. Back to normal.

I confirm however what @rooster_russ found out, and what you tested too. I am 1m76 high, which is if I am correct 5'9", and my arms length wouldn't grant me any free entrance in the nearest Ape's club. When I force my left wrist close to my chest, I get HR reading on the V800 with 5GHz connection, then I loose it when I run normally. So, that definitively looks like a range issue. The weird thing however, is that at some point in time, the HR beats come up on the V800 display and stay for quite a long period of time, even if my arms movements are quite intensive. See for instance this Polar Flow screen capture from my workout today : http://imgur.com/o0BTjXj.

I do hope that this means that the situation can be salvaged through a firmware tweak. Else, I guess that if would mean a hardware modification either on the H7 sensors (for boosting the 5Ghz emission power) or the V800 units themselves. Costly for Polar, but mandatory.

Besides, I am progressing on my learning curve with the V800, and also unfortunately with my frustration. Today's session was a programmed workout (on the Flow site) with 20' warmup and then 8 repetitions of (2min at tempo+ and 1 min rest), then free recovery. So, I synced the V800, got the workout to appear nicely on my V800 for today, selected it and started my run.

Unfortunately two things happened :

• I got beeps both for the autolaps (set on my watch at 1km) and for the programmed laps. That was definitely not intended. Though the beep is slightly different (shorter for autolaps) it gets more and more confusing when you get more tired after the 6th or 7th rep. Actually I stopped shortly in tempo+ step 6th or 7th because I thought it was the end of my 2 minutes, but it was only a new 1km mark.
  
  That, I think, calls for a UI change. First, when you are in a programmed workout, you should disregard autolaps, or at least not beep when you cross one. Then, I would go for a beep countdown before each step, like Garmin nicely does on my FR 910XT. That sounds beep/beep/beep/beep/beeeeeeeeeep for the last 5 seconds. That is very, very practical also because you can ready yourself for the next step and not be surprised when it starts. Having such a countdown would also make programmed laps different from autolaps if it would be impossible for the V800 to simply ignore them.
  
  
• After the workout, I synced the V800 through the Polar Flow app on my iPhone and .... bingo, I just LOST all my programmed laps and could see only the 1km autolaps. I had a faint hope that it would be a bug in the iphone Flow app, so I synced also on my PC to the Polar Flow website. Alas, my programmed laps seem to have vanished into the void ....

Frankly, frankly, frankly Polar .... that is not what it should be, isn't it ?

So, what do you guys plan to do, and when ?

Just don't look in threads about Fenix 2 on Internet forums. You might change your mind again. ;)

Yes, this has been mentioned a lot, no lap markers are added when there is a phase change, you have to do it manually at the moment. A bug that needs to be fixed ASAP, Polar. Here's some recent discussion:
http://forum.polar.fi/showthread.php?t=28949

Wow ... I missed this one. Thanks for the tip !

That is appalling ... the V800 watch is absolutely superb, and the make quality is fantastic, but it is geared up with pre-Beta software, both for firmware and Polar Flow. I could understand and live for a few weeks with gaps on "serious"/complex features like accurate swimming metrics, but not on such basics. That is NOT professional from Polar, and it cannot be a matter of just prioritizing too scarce programming resources. The priority at Polar has obviously been given to fancy "social network" gimmics versus what would be the essential needs for the core user target. Or did I decode the target wrong ?

I am far from a software engineer and really have no clue hence my question, how does one measure run cadence without a footpod?
thanks

There is an accelerometer inside the watch. At some point it will be used to detect swimming strokes.

Since the armswing during the run is synchronous with the movement of the feet, you can detect the period of the repetitive arm-swinning motion et voilà: running cadence.
As far as i know, Garmin does it, and I remember seeing a Sigma Sport (Germany) watch that did it with the heart rate pod (infering cadence from the up and down movements at the chest).

Part of the beauty of the V800 for me is that I don't need any extra pods anymore (used to have an older Polar watch with one of those huge GPS-Pods strapped to the upper arm), so I really want to get by without the footpod.

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if you can read this
YOU'RE DRAFTING!

Lol, one thing I have read on DC's page is the fenix team is quick with firmware updates etc, hell at least it can connect with a PM

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"Base training is bull shit" - desertdude

Exactly. Same principle is used for instance on some iPhone apps, taking advantage of the onboard accelerometer (from iPhone 4S and up if I am correct). The Wahoo Tickr Run HRM belt would also give that info, using the same principles, hence replacing a footpod ... although unfortunately it doesn't seem to interact too well yet with the V800 (see DCRainmaker's in-depth review of the V800 and compatible sensors here).

I did another open water session today with my v800 on the newest firmware, the conditions were really choppy (like swimming in a washing machine) and I wore a tri suit so the HRM would stay more secured to me. I had the GPS on and used the HRM during the swim. The HR only dropped out for ~60 seconds of the entire swim and while I think it registered the swim distance a bit long, I was being tossed all over the place so it could have been closer to the distance being shown on the unit. Overall I'm happy with the performance.