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Plantar Fasciitis surgery?
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I've had plantar Fasciitis for 1 1/2 years. I've tried just about everything to get rid of it without any luck. I'm starting to really consider surgery. If you have had this surgery or know of anyone who has had it, I would love to hear about it.
Thanks,
Mike
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis surgery? [MikeyG] [ In reply to ]
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No actual experience with the surgery, but have with PF. From some stories with others, often the scar tissue build up from the surgery can make it even worse. I had good luck with acupuncture, but it took me quite a while to find the actual source to target with the needles. If the source isn;t found, then it will most likely come back.
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis surgery? [MikeyG] [ In reply to ]
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Ugh, I've had bad-moderate-no PF since Feb. Came out of nowhere. Thought I had it kicked after a round of shots, then I started running for 4 weeks with very little issues. I then went and did a team tri run leg that had a road with horrible crowning (had to stay to the sides) and 4 hills. It's been bothering me since. Haven't been back to the Doc but have been trying other things. I have a PT friend that works me over once in a while where I get temporary relief but not 100%. I haven't run since early July but walk the dog 2-4 miles every day.

This happened to me about 6 months after having Morton's Neuroma surgery on the other foot which has been fine since.

Interested in responses, just in case...

<We all know that light travels faster than sound. That's why certain people appear bright until you hear them speak>
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis surgery? [MikeyG] [ In reply to ]
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MikeyG wrote:
I've had plantar Fasciitis for 1 1/2 years. I've tried just about everything to get rid of it without any luck. I'm starting to really consider surgery. If you have had this surgery or know of anyone who has had it, I would love to hear about it.
Thanks,
Mike

Just a bump for you. As you likely know, 95-97% of plantar fasciitis cases resolve within about 12 months. But, 3-5% is still a lot of people since such a common malady (myself included a few times).

I've done hundreds of plantar fascia releases, mostly endoscopic approaches, and my experience with them is very positive. Most all cases resolve after release (though it is certainly not 100%, probably more like 80%+ in my hands, similar to the literature). I only know of a couple of cases where someone felt worse then before and they were because of a more traditional "open" type surgery.

The alternative of course is waiting/trying more things. There is a HUGE lore of treatment options out there for this common pathology (assuming true plantar fasciitis and not a misdiagnosis). No harm in that.

Best of luck!

____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis surgery? [MikeyG] [ In reply to ]
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I had it for almost a year. Massage and leg/hip strength work helped me. Still have a little discomfort in the morning but able to run any distance with no issue.
Good luck. PF is tricky.
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis surgery? [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]
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I had PF for several years and tried many options including out of pocket ESWT and nothing worked --- eventually we decided on surgery for release- and TA DA!! It worked...no complications and still pain free 8 years later.


Good luck

Graham Wilson
USAT Level III Elite Coach
http://www.thewilsongroup.biz
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis surgery? [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]
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ggeiger wrote:
No actual experience with the surgery, but have with PF. From some stories with others, often the scar tissue build up from the surgery can make it even worse. I had good luck with acupuncture, but it took me quite a while to find the actual source to target with the needles. If the source isn;t found, then it will most likely come back.

+1 for acupuncture. I never trusted it, but after 2 years, my wife said, "you get 10 visits on insurance, so what do you have to lose?" She made me promise to do all 10. I found a guy from India that had an MD from a Western medical school, so not just a feel-good strip mall kind of place. The first 3 visits were what I expected: nothing. Nada. Zip. I thought it was a complete waste of time, but I had promised, right? Fourth visit and something happened. The tension is my calves that was causing the pain in my heel just released. Like BAM! My calves released like magic. I didn't even realized how tight they had been. I almost cried. It was intense.
It last only about an hour. Session #5 they released for half a day. #6 was almost 3 days. After the full 10 appointments I was able to run without pain as much as I wanted.
Was I more into regular stretching? Did I get more consistent in training? Yes. But I didn't care how it happened. I haven't had PF since, so I don't care how it happened. Will I do it again? Yes.
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis surgery? [rroof] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Doc, The first Doc I saw was last summer at the VA. My symptoms were classic PF symptoms. He gave me a cortisone shot and 1 stretch and sent me on my way. It got better but I could tell it wasn't completely gone. I ran a 5k on Thanksgiving and I could tell that I tore something.

I decided to go see a private practice Doc. This Doc told me that I had PF even though my symptoms were completely changed. After the 5k my foot would get worse throughout the day. Prior to this race my foot would bother me first thing in the morning and loosen up through out the day. This Doc gave me 3 cortisone shots over a 3 month period and put me in a boot for about 3-4weeks. I asked the doc if we should get a MRI and he said "no we didn't need one". He was convinced that I had PF.

After the 3 months I decided to go back to the VA Doc. He sent me for a MRI. It showed I have a 3cm tear where my arch meets my heel. He recommended I rest it and see how it goes. After about 12-14 weeks it got better. I was able to do a run/walk for 1-2hr with no pain. I went and did Triple T's(4 triathlons in 3 days for 140 miles). I did a run/walk for all of the races and my foot was fine. After this crazy race I took a 4-5 week break from triathlons and running mainly. During this break is when my PF came back and it was worse than it ever was. I'm having a hard time walking, let a lone running. The VA Doc recommended surgery. I spent the summer trying to figure out how it get it better with no luck. Thank you for any advice you can offer.
Last edited by: MikeyG: Aug 17, 16 10:47
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis surgery? [MikeyG] [ In reply to ]
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You probably had a tear because of the 3 corticosteroid injections in 3 months!

The only blessing here is that often when a full thickness tear is identified, once healed, the "plantar fasciitis" (I don't like that term, plantar fasciosis is much better) often resolves. This is what happened to Payton Manning last fall ;-)

____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis surgery? [rroof] [ In reply to ]
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So youre telling me my wife needs to get a HGH prescription?
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis surgery? [MikeyG] [ In reply to ]
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MikeyG wrote:
Thanks Doc, The first Doc I saw was last summer at the VA. My symptoms were classic PF symptoms. He gave me a cortisone shot and 1 stretch and sent me on my way. It got better but I could tell it wasn't completely gone. I ran a 5k on Thanksgiving and I could tell that I tore something.

I decided to go see a private practice Doc. This Doc told me that I had PF even though my symptoms were completely changed. After the 5k my foot would get worse throughout the day. Prior to this race my foot would bother me first thing in the morning and loosen up through out the day. This Doc gave me 3 cortisone shots over a 3 month period and put me in a boot for about 3-4weeks. I asked the doc if we should get a MRI and he said "no we didn't need one". He was convinced that I had PF.

After the 3 months I decided to go back to the VA Doc. He sent me for a MRI. It showed I have a 3cm tear where my arch meets my heel. He recommended I rest it and see how it goes. After about 12-14 weeks it got better. I was able to do a run/walk for 1-2hr with no pain. I went and did Triple T's(4 triathlons in 3 days for 140 miles). I did a run/walk for all of the races and my foot was fine. After this crazy race I took a 4-5 week break from triathlons and running mainly. During this break is when my PF came back and it was worse than it ever was. I'm having a hard time walking, let a lone running. The VA Doc recommended surgery. I spent the summer trying to figure out how it get it better with no luck. Thank you for any advice you can offer.

This is why you shouldn't see an MD for problems like plantar fascitis, tennis elbow, name the musculoskeletal problem. A cortisone shot is going to remove some of the inflammation and that's it. None of these guys did ANYTHING to address the biomechanical aspect of your problem. Go see a sports medicine chiro/PT.
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis surgery? [gimplegjoe] [ In reply to ]
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gimplegjoe wrote:
MikeyG wrote:
Thanks Doc, The first Doc I saw was last summer at the VA. My symptoms were classic PF symptoms. He gave me a cortisone shot and 1 stretch and sent me on my way. It got better but I could tell it wasn't completely gone. I ran a 5k on Thanksgiving and I could tell that I tore something.

I decided to go see a private practice Doc. This Doc told me that I had PF even though my symptoms were completely changed. After the 5k my foot would get worse throughout the day. Prior to this race my foot would bother me first thing in the morning and loosen up through out the day. This Doc gave me 3 cortisone shots over a 3 month period and put me in a boot for about 3-4weeks. I asked the doc if we should get a MRI and he said "no we didn't need one". He was convinced that I had PF.

After the 3 months I decided to go back to the VA Doc. He sent me for a MRI. It showed I have a 3cm tear where my arch meets my heel. He recommended I rest it and see how it goes. After about 12-14 weeks it got better. I was able to do a run/walk for 1-2hr with no pain. I went and did Triple T's(4 triathlons in 3 days for 140 miles). I did a run/walk for all of the races and my foot was fine. After this crazy race I took a 4-5 week break from triathlons and running mainly. During this break is when my PF came back and it was worse than it ever was. I'm having a hard time walking, let a lone running. The VA Doc recommended surgery. I spent the summer trying to figure out how it get it better with no luck. Thank you for any advice you can offer.


This is why you shouldn't see an MD for problems like plantar fascitis, tennis elbow, name the musculoskeletal problem. A cortisone shot is going to remove some of the inflammation and that's it. None of these guys did ANYTHING to address the biomechanical aspect of your problem. Go see a sports medicine chiro/PT.

And how do you know that? I spend a lot of time reviewing why a person develops said overuse injury with measurements, detailed ROM in my notes, etc. Most are very appreciative of the "homework" I give them and NOT wasting their time in PT.

My quiver is full of arrows, and some of them happen to be sharp ;-)

____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis surgery? [rroof] [ In reply to ]
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rroof wrote:
gimplegjoe wrote:
MikeyG wrote:
Thanks Doc, The first Doc I saw was last summer at the VA. My symptoms were classic PF symptoms. He gave me a cortisone shot and 1 stretch and sent me on my way. It got better but I could tell it wasn't completely gone. I ran a 5k on Thanksgiving and I could tell that I tore something.

I decided to go see a private practice Doc. This Doc told me that I had PF even though my symptoms were completely changed. After the 5k my foot would get worse throughout the day. Prior to this race my foot would bother me first thing in the morning and loosen up through out the day. This Doc gave me 3 cortisone shots over a 3 month period and put me in a boot for about 3-4weeks. I asked the doc if we should get a MRI and he said "no we didn't need one". He was convinced that I had PF.

After the 3 months I decided to go back to the VA Doc. He sent me for a MRI. It showed I have a 3cm tear where my arch meets my heel. He recommended I rest it and see how it goes. After about 12-14 weeks it got better. I was able to do a run/walk for 1-2hr with no pain. I went and did Triple T's(4 triathlons in 3 days for 140 miles). I did a run/walk for all of the races and my foot was fine. After this crazy race I took a 4-5 week break from triathlons and running mainly. During this break is when my PF came back and it was worse than it ever was. I'm having a hard time walking, let a lone running. The VA Doc recommended surgery. I spent the summer trying to figure out how it get it better with no luck. Thank you for any advice you can offer.


This is why you shouldn't see an MD for problems like plantar fascitis, tennis elbow, name the musculoskeletal problem. A cortisone shot is going to remove some of the inflammation and that's it. None of these guys did ANYTHING to address the biomechanical aspect of your problem. Go see a sports medicine chiro/PT.


And how do you know that? I spend a lot of time reviewing why a person develops said overuse injury with measurements, detailed ROM in my notes, etc. Most are very appreciative of the "homework" I give them and NOT wasting their time in PT.

My quiver is full of arrows, and some of them happen to be sharp ;-)

I'm glad to hear that. In my experience you are the exception, not the rule.
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis surgery? [mpderksen] [ In reply to ]
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mpderksen wrote:
ggeiger wrote:
No actual experience with the surgery, but have with PF. From some stories with others, often the scar tissue build up from the surgery can make it even worse. I had good luck with acupuncture, but it took me quite a while to find the actual source to target with the needles. If the source isn;t found, then it will most likely come back.


+1 for acupuncture. I never trusted it, but after 2 years, my wife said, "you get 10 visits on insurance, so what do you have to lose?" She made me promise to do all 10. I found a guy from India that had an MD from a Western medical school, so not just a feel-good strip mall kind of place. The first 3 visits were what I expected: nothing. Nada. Zip. I thought it was a complete waste of time, but I had promised, right? Fourth visit and something happened. The tension is my calves that was causing the pain in my heel just released. Like BAM! My calves released like magic. I didn't even realized how tight they had been. I almost cried. It was intense.
It last only about an hour. Session #5 they released for half a day. #6 was almost 3 days. After the full 10 appointments I was able to run without pain as much as I wanted.
Was I more into regular stretching? Did I get more consistent in training? Yes. But I didn't care how it happened. I haven't had PF since, so I don't care how it happened. Will I do it again? Yes.


I read this and tried something similar for my own PF that's been really bad lately. I googled where the pressure point is for the calf and found some trigger point videos that show where to massage a particular point on the upper calf to release the muscle, which in turn should then quit pulling on the PF tendon so much. Did it and BOOM, all kinds of crazy sensations and weird stuff happened in the foot. More blood flow, tingling, sudden relaxation in the tightness... And then the area I massaged on the calf was super sore the rest of the day like I had really broken something apart that needed it. Woke up this morning and the pain in the foot I get when first walking was far better than usual. Just thought I'd share...


----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon
Interviews with Jordan Rapp, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
Last edited by: ZenTriBrett: Aug 18, 16 9:23
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis surgery? [rroof] [ In reply to ]
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I tore it after my shot from the first Doc. I'm sure the shot weakened it and was the cause of the tear. It did get better after the tear, than it got worse.

I just started seeing a chiropractor who does deep tissue massage or A.R.T.. My foot felt better after my first treatment, last week but it got worse as the week went on. I had a treatment yesterday and I haven't noticed any difference in pain this morning. I'm going to give it a few more treatments and see how my foot does. I will look into the trigger point stuff and give it a try.

Thanks for the help,
Mike
Last edited by: MikeyG: Aug 18, 16 10:29
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis surgery? [MikeyG] [ In reply to ]
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Worked for me. Had bone spurs on both heels. Removed a portion of fascia connected to the spur on the left foot in April of 2015, and had the same thing done in June of 2016 on the right foot. Still getting over June surgery, but it's pretty good. Not keeping me from running, while before surgery it was. For me I was able to start running again in 3 weeks in both cases. Second time around the healing seems to be a bit slower. Real limiter will be the pain at the point. If you can tolerate it, you can run. I was able to start biking within a couple days, though I'm not sure I was supposed to have that soon. I figured if it didn't hurt, I wasn't doing damage. I was still limping when walking, but fine on the bike.


I wanna go fast!
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis surgery? [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
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Would you mind sharing some of those videos with the rest of us? :)
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis surgery? [MikeyG] [ In reply to ]
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You've probably tried it all already, but just thought I'd share:

For me, a combination of diligent stretching, lacrosse ball rolling and strassburg night sock, in conjunction with a temporary reduction in run mileage, worked wonders. I kept trying to battle through it before finally deciding to get aggressive with addressing it - in particular, I'm a runner before a triathlete, so I was very reluctant to reduce mileage, but in the end I halved my regular weekly mileage for roughly two months.
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis surgery? [TheND] [ In reply to ]
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Here were the best that I found. Could be better ones out there for sure. These are if you are going with the theory that an overly tight calf is a major part of the problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHkjSYQQing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7uUfGKh8VQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JiCQEjtepo

Semi-related side story: My wife had sciatica really badly and tried acupuncture. It worked really well, but only for a day or two. So hitting the nerve or pressure point to get a reaction is very real. But somebody told us don't keep going with that for sciatica because you're not actually fixing the problem, just masking it. Turned out she had a bone spur in her spine that needed to be removed to quit putting pressure on the nerve. No acupuncture would ever have fixed that. But it made me a believer that pressure points and nerve manipulation could be helpful for some stuff. So it could be possible to relax a muscle by hitting a nerve or pressure point area. Do it enough and the muscle stops being clenched up at all. (hopefully).


----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon
Interviews with Jordan Rapp, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
Last edited by: ZenTriBrett: Aug 18, 16 11:40
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis surgery? [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
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It's definitely my problem, thank you!!!
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis surgery? [MikeyG] [ In reply to ]
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I had a pretty severe case of PF last September. Came on real strong randomly after a half ironman randomly two days later while running. I saw my physical therapist cousin who confirmed it was the beginning of plantar.

I did every known "treatment" for plantar throughout the next 5 weeks. I didn't run from September 4 through October 9 (painful that whole month timeframe), then did my Ironman on October 10th. Pretty positive that is what eventually caused my tear. Saw a podiatrist on October 20th as I couldn't walk without severe pain. An ultrasound could not confirm the tear, so I had a cortisone shot which ultimately forced me to wait 6 more weeks before getting an MRI to show the tear.

After going over all of the options with my podiatrist, I decided on the Amniofix injection. Basically, your foot gets injected with placenta and it rebuilds where the tear was. I had this done in December and had crutches and a boot for the holidays. Did some physical therapy and ASTYM for 6 weeks to help rebuild, but still was having pain. Podiatrist re-evaluated and I had Shockwave/EPAT done (4 treatments) that ultimately made the plantar go away.

Everyone's PF story is different it seems, but I do think the Amniofix injection worked well (I think the ASTYM actually caused my recovery to be longer than it should have been). After 10 months, mine is finally healed (some people have procedures done--surgery, Amniofix, PRP, etc--and are back in as little as a month!).

My podiatrist noted that surgery isn't always the best solution as there have been many cases where it really limits the person when they return to their sport. I didn't go the surgery route but just wanted to put that out there in case you haven't heard it yet.

If you're in the Chicagoland area, Dr. Chin at The Running Institute is who I worked with. His nephew does Ironmans (and Dr. Chin comes to watch them) so he understands the sport pretty well and was super supportive in getting me back as fast as possible.

Hope things get better for you soon!
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis surgery? [MikeyG] [ In reply to ]
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Had PF twice, first time a lot of ibuprofen, stretching and massage and of course orthotics, after a few months and less running it went away. The second time, a few years later it was much worse. Tried all the "home recipes" nothing worked, even went for my first shot in the heal to no avail. I then went to a night boot/splint and that helped a little. So I thought if one night helps how about 24 x 7. I wore it alllllllllll the time, crutched out to the pool deck, out to my car for a bike ride, my heal did not touch down for three weeks, my doctor and wife thought I was nuts, maybe so but it worked. After the three weeks I would only walk, no distance stuff, massage and stretched for another two weeks before I tried any running, it worked. It's been a few years since then and of course I don't stretch or massage but I only run with my shoe inserts. Since then I rarely go bare foot or with sandals, I still protect the heal. Give it a tri before surgery and good luck.
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis surgery? [MikeyG] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry to bring this one back from the dead, but was just reading this article and thought I'd post it here. There is some helpful information here, especially the exercises for strengthening flexor digitorum brevis.

http://running.competitor.com/...utm_medium=whats-hot
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis surgery? [rroof] [ In reply to ]
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rroof wrote:
MikeyG wrote:
I've had plantar Fasciitis for 1 1/2 years. I've tried just about everything to get rid of it without any luck. I'm starting to really consider surgery. If you have had this surgery or know of anyone who has had it, I would love to hear about it.
Thanks,
Mike


Just a bump for you. As you likely know, 95-97% of plantar fasciitis cases resolve within about 12 months. But, 3-5% is still a lot of people since such a common malady (myself included a few times).

I've done hundreds of plantar fascia releases, mostly endoscopic approaches, and my experience with them is very positive. Most all cases resolve after release (though it is certainly not 100%, probably more like 80%+ in my hands, similar to the literature). I only know of a couple of cases where someone felt worse then before and they were because of a more traditional "open" type surgery.

The alternative of course is waiting/trying more things. There is a HUGE lore of treatment options out there for this common pathology (assuming true plantar fasciitis and not a misdiagnosis). No harm in that.

Best of luck!

Hello rroof,

Forgive me for digging up an old thread, but I've been poking around for insights into my ongoing battle with my plantar fascia and have learned you are a valuable source of information.

I'm currently on the "patience plan" and reaching out for therapeutic reasons more than anything else. Please let me know if you have any input on where I should go from here.

July/August 2016. My PF flared up going into IMC (July 2016), but was manageable and did not seem like a big deal. I had a good race, then got greedy and raced some local stuff in August 2016. The foot was very angry afterward. I naively figured R&R would solve everything, began all conventional therapies including ART, orthotics, PT and stopped running completely.

March 2017. After six months of little progress through R&R (no running) and PT, a local specialist diagnosed me with "plantar fasciosis". An ultrasound of the foot showed moderate degeneration of my plantar fascia. The diameter increased from approximately 3mm to 6mm as the plantar fascia approached the tender spot where it connects to my heel. Doc described it as a "frayed rope", with layers of striations across that connection point, and a little bone spur forming as a result of the tension. Given my lack of progress through conventional means, we hit the foot with a PRP injection.

August 2017. I spent most of 2017 following the PRP recovery protocol, nursing the foot back to health through PT, limiting my running to a gravity-assisted treadmill and some light trail running. In August 2017 (12 months post-onset), I threw caution to the wind and buried myself at Norseman. Not the best “therapy” for my foot, but YOLO. The foot was extremely upset late in the race, to the point I doubted I'd be able to walk the next day, but was surprisingly tame after.

October 2017. The foot is now back to its chronic state of unhappiness. Much better than initial onset, but not “all better”. The pain is localized at my heel, which I visualize as the point where that bone spur was on the imaging. I haven’t run a step since Norseman (3 months ago), run very little over the past 14 months and am not sure what to do next. Take another year off running? Get a second opinion? Surgery? I’ll probably go back to the PRP doc for more imaging and a reassessment, but thought I’d start by seeing what Slowtwitch says.

Scott
Last edited by: GreatScott: Oct 31, 17 15:47
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Re: Plantar Fasciitis surgery? [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
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Have you tried sleeping in a night boot yet? That's the one thing that seems to work for everybody and is super cheap. Just takes discipline to wear it.


----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon
Interviews with Jordan Rapp, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
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