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Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy?
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So I have had a single leg Pioneer on my IA for exactly to this very day 1 year. Its been great. No problems and reads well. I however wanted a pm on my CCX bike for training. Found a nice bloke in town and he hooked me up with a Quarq Riken Carbon and we put it on and it works great. Synced with Quarq Software and accelerometer is working and reads good steady power.

But its always like 20-30 W high from my pioneer? Is this common? I did 60 mins at 70.3 pace both this and last sunday and the Avg. was ~272 on the pioneer and ~300 on the Quarq. Is this usual?

Probably the only professional classical musician triathlete on slowtwitch?
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Re: Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy? [UOTriathlete] [ In reply to ]
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Presumably you bought a single-sided power meter believing that consistency is the only thing that matters, not accuracy. How do you like them apples now?
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Re: Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy? [RChung] [ In reply to ]
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RChung wrote:
Presumably you bought a single-sided power meter believing that consistency is the only thing that matters, not accuracy. How do you like them apples now?

Hahaha. Quoted for the next 10 years of people saying, “as long as the number is same all the time who cares if it’s correct”.

-----------------------------------------------------------
De Soto Sport Athlete
Formerly Draketriathlon
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Re: Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy? [RChung] [ In reply to ]
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Uh, i bought the single leg because I didnt have much $ at the time, still dont, I traded liquor for the quarq... but i do like consistency and stuff

Probably the only professional classical musician triathlete on slowtwitch?
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Re: Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy? [UOTriathlete] [ In reply to ]
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Do you do a zero offset before every ride on both pm’s?

get comfortable being uncomfortable
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Re: Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy? [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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Yep. Make sure to do it multiple times

Probably the only professional classical musician triathlete on slowtwitch?
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Re: Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy? [UOTriathlete] [ In reply to ]
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UOTriathlete wrote:
Uh, i bought the single leg because I didnt have much $ at the time, still dont, I traded liquor for the quarq... but i do like consistency and stuff

^^This is great

I still have the single leg Stages that I bought in the summer of 2014 - First Gen. I was running a 2nd Gen Dura Ace Stages the past two years on my race bike and noticed the power to be between 10-20 watts lower than my old Stages. I calibrated both before every ride. Basically it just comes down to them being different systems. One might read a bit high or a bit low but what's important is that they are consistent.

Kind of a pain in the ass, but I would do testing on both bikes. My old Stages is on my trainer bike, so I would have indoor power numbers on that and outdoor on my DA Stages. I will have one of the new Quarq dZeros on my race bike this year so we will see how much of a difference there is.
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Re: Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy? [APKTRI] [ In reply to ]
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Thats what I kinda figured. Just test and get a sense between the two

Probably the only professional classical musician triathlete on slowtwitch?
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Re: Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy? [UOTriathlete] [ In reply to ]
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Can these be calibrated like the PowerTaps? You get a chain and weight for which you have an accurate total weight, and hang them from the pedal. My PTs give really consistent result across my fleet.
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Re: Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy? [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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grumpier.mike wrote:
Can these be calibrated like the PowerTaps? You get a chain and weight for which you have an accurate total weight, and hang them from the pedal. My PTs give really consistent result across my fleet.

It’s one sided so I don’t necessarily think that is the best option.

If it’s off because he uses more power on his left leg. It’ll be even more jacked up trying to compare power to a 2 sided.

-----------------------------------------------------------
De Soto Sport Athlete
Formerly Draketriathlon
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Re: Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy? [UOTriathlete] [ In reply to ]
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Well think about it this way. I don't know how left/right balances ranges tend to be, but at 300 watts of true power output, if your legs are 45/55 then you'll get a reading of 270 on the pioneer. Doesn't seem too unrealistic of a scenario to me.
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Re: Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy? [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]
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Well shit, didnt think about it like that. Seems to make sense. I just count to 4 usually think about percentages is tough

Probably the only professional classical musician triathlete on slowtwitch?
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Re: Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy? [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
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Grant.Reuter wrote:
RChung wrote:
Presumably you bought a single-sided power meter believing that consistency is the only thing that matters, not accuracy. How do you like them apples now?


Hahaha. Quoted for the next 10 years of people saying, “as long as the number is same all the time who cares if it’s correct”.



No need to quote. The joke is years-old now.
Last edited by: trail: Feb 12, 18 6:35
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Re: Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy? [UOTriathlete] [ In reply to ]
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UOTriathlete wrote:
So I have had a single leg Pioneer on my IA for exactly to this very day 1 year. Its been great. No problems and reads well. I however wanted a pm on my CCX bike for training. Found a nice bloke in town and he hooked me up with a Quarq Riken Carbon and we put it on and it works great. Synced with Quarq Software and accelerometer is working and reads good steady power.

But its always like 20-30 W high from my pioneer? Is this common? I did 60 mins at 70.3 pace both this and last sunday and the Avg. was ~272 on the pioneer and ~300 on the Quarq. Is this usual?

Do a "stomp test" on the Quarq using the Qalvin app and an ANT+ dongle. Search the web for info on how to do this. That way you'll know if the Quarq has the proper torque slope calibration.

I don't know if it's possible to check/modify that on the Pioneer.



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy? [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the tip. Will do

Probably the only professional classical musician triathlete on slowtwitch?
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Re: Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy? [UOTriathlete] [ In reply to ]
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Why does this:
UOTriathlete wrote:
So I have had a single leg Pioneer on my IA for exactly to this very day 1 year. Its been great. No problems and reads well.
always seem to be come right before this:
UOTriathlete wrote:
Found a nice bloke in town and he hooked me up with a Quarq... But its always like 20-30 W high from my pioneer?
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Re: Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy? [lanierb] [ In reply to ]
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lanierb wrote:
Why does this:
UOTriathlete wrote:
So I have had a single leg Pioneer on my IA for exactly to this very day 1 year. Its been great. No problems and reads well.

always seem to be come right before this:
UOTriathlete wrote:

Found a nice bloke in town and he hooked me up with a Quarq... But its always like 20-30 W high from my pioneer?


The "exactly to this very day 1 year" means that there were still PT GS hubs available at that time for $299.
Last edited by: RChung: Feb 12, 18 9:20
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Re: Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy? [lanierb] [ In reply to ]
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Because both are true?

Probably the only professional classical musician triathlete on slowtwitch?
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Re: Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy? [UOTriathlete] [ In reply to ]
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So, if I understand your post properly, the Quarq said you did the same ride on 2 different days with a perceived effort control. On ride 1, your Pioneer showed your left leg averaged 136 watts (272 = 136x2) and on ride 2, your Quarq showed a 300 watt average.

Without an independent and known control, there is no way to know which, if either is "right". And it's possible they both are.
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Re: Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy? [FatandSlow] [ In reply to ]
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Pretty much. Now I'm realizing this folly of my ways

Probably the only professional classical musician triathlete on slowtwitch?
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Re: Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy? [UOTriathlete] [ In reply to ]
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If you have a friend with a powertap wheel or a two sided pedal power meter that you can borrow you can compare against a third number. Still not a guarantee it'll confirm one or the other but my money is on it matching the Quarq.
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Re: Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy? [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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grumpier.mike wrote:
Can these be calibrated like the PowerTaps? You get a chain and weight for which you have an accurate total weight, and hang them from the pedal. My PTs give really consistent result across my fleet.
You can check the calibration of a Powertap's "slope" but you cannot recalibrate it.

http://www.cyclecoach.com
http://www.aerocoach.com.au
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Re: Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy? [FatandSlow] [ In reply to ]
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FatandSlow wrote:
So, if I understand your post properly, the Quarq said you did the same ride on 2 different days with a perceived effort control. On ride 1, your Pioneer showed your left leg averaged 136 watts (272 = 136x2) and on ride 2, your Quarq showed a 300 watt average.

Without an independent and known control, there is no way to know which, if either is "right". And it's possible they both are.

You mean like checking the torque slope of the Quarq, as mentioned above, right?



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy? [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:
I don't know if it's possible to check/modify that on the Pioneer.

There is no mention of being able to check let alone set slope in the Pioneer manual.
http://pioneer-cyclesports.com/us-en/support/products/manual/SGY-PM910v_usersmanual.pdf


It does have a function that will display radial and tangential forces in Newtons when doing a zero offset, so that option could be used for validation purposes, or at least tested to see if the tangential forces make sense when compared with a known load.

Pioneer's own head unit allows you to apply a factor to power data. But that's not available if you choose to use another head unit, e.g. a Garmin.

http://www.cyclecoach.com
http://www.aerocoach.com.au
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Re: Pioneer vs Quarq Accuracy? [RChung] [ In reply to ]
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RChung wrote:
Presumably you bought a single-sided power meter believing that consistency is the only thing that matters, not accuracy. How do you like them apples now?[/quote

Dude, why are you trying to be a dick? He came on here asking advice and you hurled mockery at him.

2018 Races: IM Santa Rosa, Vineman Monte Rio, Lake Tahoe 70.3
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