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Paulo Tweets
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Paulo Sousa ‏@pstriathlon 1h
Either there is a conspiracy to cover up a positive test or a conspiracy to denigrate an athlete... which one is it?
Paulo Sousa ‏@pstriathlon 2h
If it's a rumor, then where did the rumor start? Why did it start? A lot of questions and no answers...


Anyone know what he's referring to?
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Re: Paulo Tweets [severinj] [ In reply to ]
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Aicar
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Re: Paulo Tweets [Seahawkpride12] [ In reply to ]
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Anything to do with Kona?
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Re: Paulo Tweets [severinj] [ In reply to ]
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This anticipation is killing me...
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Re: Paulo Tweets [Seahawkpride12] [ In reply to ]
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That's disturbing.
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Re: Paulo Tweets [sentania] [ In reply to ]
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in before somebody ate too many steaks...

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
Last edited by: camaleon: Oct 17, 13 12:13
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Re: Paulo Tweets [severinj] [ In reply to ]
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Oooohhhhh..... top finisher getting busted??? OR rumormongering??? Who ate the steak?
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Re: Paulo Tweets [severinj] [ In reply to ]
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I was just about to start a thread on this. I'm curious.
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Re: Paulo Tweets [severinj] [ In reply to ]
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i know what (and who) he's referring to. there is a rumor, and i've heard it a bunch, that there was an adverse analytical finding at Vegas 70.3. i have run this down to the source. twice. i have made an ass of myself at WTC, in multiple departments, including anti-doping, and i've also had several back-and-forth exchanges with USADA in the last 30 days about a number of rumors, both this current rumor and lingering rumors. i've asked straight yes or no questions, and i've worded the questions so it's pretty impossible to get around them through legalese. i've gotten unequivocal "no" from everyone i've asked on every question i've asked.

so, there may be a conspiracy. if there is, it'll show up on WADA's annual report next year. even if it's an AAF at vegas for an asthma inhaler, all the AAFs will show in WADA's report, because WTC is its own testing authority, and all AAFs show up, and they show up in both in and out of competition columns.

now, WADA, i have twice, or thrice, over the last month asked them the same basic questions i'm asking USADA and WTC. while these 2 u.s.-based organizations have been immediately and thoroughly responsive. WADA has yet to return a single phone call or email to me. as such, the one hole in this system is WADA. i'm losing confidence that WADA is a responsible arbiter of the process. this needs fixing. but, so far, i can't discover anything afoul at WTC, and i'm asking enough people at enough organizations, casting a wide net, to find somebody who's not willing to lie for the cause. i'm asking too many people these questions, at too many levels. if any of them were caught lying, that would be the end of their careers. so i'm pretty confident this is an unfounded rumor.

i've also copied all this correspondence to jordan, so that he can serve as a second pair of eyes, seeing if i'm missing anything. maybe he'll opine on this thread. i understand why anyone would cast a jaundiced eye at testing authorities. but, so far, nothing to see here. if anyone has any evidence to the contrary, i would love to see it, and i promise i'll follow it up with vigor.

i don't need to tell you, you guys know better than to name somebody just on a rumor, right? or to provide clues. none of this, "i'm not naming names, but his name rhymes with bonnie theismuller and he swam in the '32 olympics."

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Paulo Tweets [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I never trusted that Hines guy.

What I do: http://app.strava.com/athletes/345699
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Re: Paulo Tweets [Printer86] [ In reply to ]
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hahaha very strong play
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Re: Paulo Tweets [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the explanation.
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Re: Paulo Tweets [sentania] [ In reply to ]
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is AICAR the one that leans you out or is it the one that gives you superhuman aerobic abilities? I forget.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Paulo Tweets [severinj] [ In reply to ]
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Here's where we are at with all this stuff. It has been a discussion that Dan and I have been having with Paula NF, who dedicates a great deal of her time at WTC to the IM Anti-Doping Program, Kate Mittelstadt, who runs the program for WTC, and Andrew Messick, who is of course CEO of WTC. Travis Tygart and some other folks at USADA have also been involved in separate discussions. Dan and/or I have asked very direct, very pointed questions. We have deliberately tried to pose questions where there is no way that you someone could say, "well, TECHNICALLY, I wasn't lying." These are not statements where "the least untrue answer" could be given with any sort of conscience.

EVERYONE has answered - unequivocally - "NO. Not in any way, shape, or form." to any questions about cover-ups, conspiracies, unannounced positives, etc, etc, etc.

There have been no legalese-laced answers. No "no comments." Nothing but, "no, that did not happen."

I think it's pretty clear that people will do their best to protect vested interests and cover their own asses. But there are too many people with too much at stake and too much integrity to be caught in a lie. Conspiracies are REALLY hard to keep quiet. The truth always outs. Look at this stuff with the NSA. You really think someone doesn't care enough about triathlon to out the truth - if it's something other than the public story - when they clearly will not have to flee to Russia as a result and may even be party to a whistleblower lawsuit and the funds that could come from that?

Now, the program isn't perfect. I think, as Dan does, that it's a conflict of interest for WTC to do it's own results management. This actually comes mostly - in our opinion - from the potential legal costs associated with AG testing, since many AG athletes have significant legal resources. Fighting pros, I'm less worried about. Pros are not rich, and the public has had it with "believe tyler" type campaigns. But many AG athletes have the means to fight a long legal battle. So that's a potential problem in my eyes. Plus, as we saw with the UCI, being responsible for your own results management presents a real potential area for abuse. So I just don't see the good that comes of it. That said, the people in charge of the program are people whose integrity and honesty I believe in. So while the appearance of a conflict of interest is there - and I'd like to see that gone, right now it only is an appearance thing.

I have a very strong vested interest in the credibility of the program. I have put my name and reputation behind the integrity of it. So I've asked these questions with Dan, because I want to do what I can to make sure the program has been "stress-tested." Especially since myself and my peers contribute to the funding of the program, I think it's even more important that the program be robust.

I think folks need to remember that, for better and for worse, it's REALLY hard to catch dopers. The system is heavily weighted to protect against false positives. There is only, roughly, a 1-in-33 chance (3%) that a test will catch someone who is actively cheating. This was from a discussion on Science of Sport. So maybe there's an A-sample that's a bit "off." In that case, another tech runs the test again. This time it shows up clean. Or the A-sample is suspicious and the B-sample is then clean. None of those things represent an AAF. Should they be made public? No, because they are not positive tests. A "suspicious" result is not a positive - an erratic A-sample that doesn't then show up in the B. That is NOT a positive. It just isn't. But maybe someone talks. But maybe someone heard something and started a rumor. People are involved and people are fallible.

There are DEFINITELY ways that the IM Anti-Doping program could be made better. Some outside oversight. More transparency on the financial contribution from the pros. These are all things that I'd like to see. But the program is still a huge step forward towards clean sport. A lot of people who I trust put a huge amount of themselves into this. And I think it is a program that is worth our support. People are asking the questions. And the answers that are coming back are loud and clear - "there has never been any sort of cover-up, conspiracy, or other non-standard response to any sort of AAF by WTC."

So, hopefully that adds some clarity and insight.

We all want to make this program better. Unfortunately, rumors like this inevitably happen. We do our best to track them down and address them. For everyone's sake.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Paulo Tweets [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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Let me google that for you....it enhances u aerobically...you are thinking of clen for an ironman racer. Plenty of substances do both however i believe clen to be the best for ironman hawaii pro's. Don't lose muscle and lose 10-15 pounds in a month.
Last edited by: Seahawkpride12: Oct 17, 13 13:04
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Re: Paulo Tweets [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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You wrote:
Now, the program isn't perfect. I think, as Dan does, that it's a conflict of interest for WTC to do it's own results management. This actually comes mostly - in our opinion - from the potential legal costs associated with AG testing, since many AG athletes have significant legal resources.


Triathlon is an international sport and AG testing is normal in many countries and has been going on for years without any big legal issues. I am not sure if your answer was about the US athletes only?

As long as WTC is a closed organization just like MLB, NCAA, NHL and pro boxing it is harder to build credibility, especially since AG and pro testing is already quite common in other countries, in triathlon and other sports and part of what is considered normal/no big deal.

Is there anything in Ironman’s history regarding doping that should suggest they have not taking doping issues seriously?
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Re: Paulo Tweets [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
I think folks need to remember that, for better and for worse, it's REALLY hard to catch dopers. The system is heavily weighted to protect against false positives. There is only, roughly, a 1-in-33 chance (3%) that a test will catch someone who is actively cheating. This was from a discussion on Science of Sport. So maybe there's an A-sample that's a bit "off." In that case, another tech runs the test again. This time it shows up clean. Or the A-sample is suspicious and the B-sample is then clean. None of those things represent an AAF. Should they be made public? No, because they are not positive tests. A "suspicious" result is not a positive - an erratic A-sample that doesn't then show up in the B. That is NOT a positive. It just isn't. But maybe someone talks. But maybe someone heard something and started a rumor. People are involved and people are fallible.

Curious about this topic. In my understanding of the testing process and results, it is very uncommon to have an A-sample show an AAF and the B-sample show no issues. Maybe it happens more than is reported, but I think I've only heard of a few cases. In most cases the National Sport Organization/NADA is notified of an AAF from an A-sample and the athlete is given the opportunity to observe the testing of the B-sample.
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Re: Paulo Tweets [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Is the rumor that a specific athlete had a AAF (I do not want to know the name) or is it there is a was AAF from Vegas, with no specific name attached? Because obviously one is definetly worse for an athlete as this appears to have no basis. If it does not have a name, then it may cast a cloud over all of the athletes and since it appears not be real, someone may believe WTC is covering it up, because it is not the most transparent program since WTC runs it.

I do not know if it is worse if it has a name attached or not. Also, this may be an argument for WTC to allow another body to run their testing.

This is just another example of why leaks from labs are dangerous, even if they are real. They can lead credence to untrue leaks, since some of the leaks have been real. I could not imagine how an athlete would feel about this.
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Re: Paulo Tweets [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
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slowman wrote:
i know what (and who) he's referring to. there is a rumor, and i've heard it a bunch, that there was an adverse analytical finding at Vegas 70.3.


Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |
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Re: Paulo Tweets [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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"I think, as Dan does, that it's a conflict of interest for WTC to do it's own results management."

to be clear, WTC, as an "IF equivalent," does what other IFs do: they handle their own results management, if they are the testing authorities. this is absolutely a conflict. the whole program is built around what seems to me a false premise. results management was taken away from national olympic committees (resulting in WADA and national anti-doping agencies) because of the conflict: the dual roles of catching cheaters and winning medals. how this conflict is removed when an IF is tasked with both catching cheaters and keeping the image of its sport clean i do not know.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Paulo Tweets [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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"As long as WTC is a closed organization just like MLB, NCAA, NHL and pro boxing it is harder to build credibility"

that's really not factually true. WTC is a WADA signatory. it operates exactly as an IF operates. it is subject to precisely the same rules, drug panels, lengths of suspensions, reporting, etc., as any IF. that is not true with the other organizations you mention. if you want to say that there are conflicts of interest, potential for abuse, etc., i won't argue with that, but they are precisely the same conflicts that occur inside of IFs.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Paulo Tweets [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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At this year's Norseman Anti Doping Norway tested the top ten no matter if you were pro or AG and nationality. Ten out of 233 is not bad.
Of course it was a third party, not Norseman who was responsible for testing. This is possible if the sport is organized under a national and international umbrella.
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Re: Paulo Tweets [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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"At this year's Norseman Anti Doping Norway tested the top ten no matter if you were pro or AG and nationality. Ten out of 233 is not bad."

i suspect norseman is the most important triathlon in norway. WTC certainly exceeded in number, and might have exceeded in percentage, drug testing at the most important triathlon in america. and it paid for this testing itself, with maybe a slight assist from USAT.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Paulo Tweets [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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WTC has a 70.3 in Norway and has to follow the Norwegian anti doping rules there as well. Every athlete can be tested, and every Norwegian athlete can be tested OOC (just like most countries in Europe).

Norseman is the triathlon with most publicity, but it is still a small triathlon.
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Re: Paulo Tweets [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
WTC is a WADA signatory. it operates exactly as an IF operates.

WTC is a corporation, owned by an investment firm. It operates exactly as a corportation owned by a large investment organization operates.... it its best interests.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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