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Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine?
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A bit of background, I have no past history with using a power meter, and haven't really delved into power meters in relation to performance, average power output for cyclists based on cat level etc etc etc. I purchased a Garmin Vector a few weeks ago and I'm in the process of getting used to training with it, ordered books and the such. I took it out today for the first time on the road and did some hammering and a few longer intervals to see kind of what I was measuring.

I'm nowhere near being an amazing cyclist, I race primarily cyclocross as a Cat 2 who upgraded too quickly, 5 ft 8 165 lbs as of this morning. I'm trying to figure out if the numbers that I'm putting down are accurate to where I should be at, or if I should take it with a grain of salt and consider that it's reading high.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/616745205
This was the workout today, and the past three days have some rides, however are indoor trainer rides.


They've been installed per protocol, no washers needed but still space between the crank and the pedal pod, torqued down to 25 lb-ft, dynamic calibration done upon initial setup and calibrated per the edge 510 before each ride.
Last edited by: PatrickOfSteele: Oct 20, 14 12:08
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Re: Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine? [PatrickOfSteele] [ In reply to ]
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No one can look at a ride or workout file such as you have posted and tell you if your power meter is accurate.

It'd be nice if you could trust your data source (your Vectors), and then use it to improve (get stronger). Assuming you do this, you may find that over time your measured output increases and with the right amount of data so does your average speed in events such as time trials. Of course the course, weather conditions and your setup all factor in huge here too.

You could try to compare your Vector data with other sources (if you had additional power meters available), but that may also yield the question... which meter is correct? (assuming they differ).

Read those books and come up with a solid training plan that utilizes your new tool... or find a good coach to help you do just that. Then get out and do the prescribed work.
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Re: Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine? [PatrickOfSteele] [ In reply to ]
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PatrickOfSteele wrote:
A bit of background, I have no past history with using a power meter, and haven't really delved into power meters in relation to performance, average power output for cyclists based on cat level etc etc etc. I purchased a Garmin Vector a few weeks ago and I'm in the process of getting used to training with it, ordered books and the such. I took it out today for the first time on the road and did some hammering and a few longer intervals to see kind of what I was measuring.

I'm nowhere near being an amazing cyclist, I race primarily cyclocross as a Cat 2 who upgraded too quickly, 5 ft 8 165 lbs as of this morning. I'm trying to figure out if the numbers that I'm putting down are accurate to where I should be at, or if I should take it with a grain of salt and consider that it's reading high.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/616745205
This was the workout today, and the past three days have some rides, however are indoor trainer rides.


They've been installed per protocol, no washers needed but still space between the crank and the pedal pod, torqued down to 25 lb-ft, dynamic calibration done upon initial setup and calibrated per the edge 510 before each ride.


One session and you want to know accuracy to performance? As long as it is consistent across all future sessions then it can do for you what it's suppose to. No need to take the grain of salt.

Formerly TriBrad02
Last edited by: TriBrad02: Oct 20, 14 12:23
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Re: Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine? [nord0296] [ In reply to ]
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I assumed the such, however I wasn't sure if there was a "baseline" where an individual who was riding around 250 watts would be performing at (x) level, or if the numbers just didn't really coincide because they just seemed oddly high. I trust the pedals, and i'm not too worried about 100% accuracy, but being 75-100 watts high would be a bit disheartening, even though I know that consistency is better than accuracy.
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Re: Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine? [nord0296] [ In reply to ]
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Patrick, like Nord wrote, impossible to say. I can tell you I'm fairly new to the Vector pedals coming from years with Powertap and I'm finding the watts pretty closely matched to the watts of Powertap hub. First blush, I'd say you're good to go. The power balance is a really fun metric to play with. For me with the first few rides, the balance was like yours, 53/47 + - and I had the opportunity to speak with David at Garmin, one of their reps and he told me to check the snugness of pedals left and right. I put them on with the human torque wrench trying to simulate 25 pounds feet. The crowfoot to attach to a beam bar didn't come with my kit but thankfully my local shop phoned me to inform me one of the crowfoot thingies arrived. FYI, if anyone needs, I saw the 15mm, 3/8 drive crowfoot at Lowes. I don't know if it will be narrow enough to fit on spindle flats?? Sorry I digress. David told me to snug them down again. he was right, I got a little more tightness and my power balance is now like 50/50, 49/51, 51/49. So, you didn't ask but I'll offer that little tip. ; ) Nice weather you had there. It's getting cold in upper New York. Good luck, have fun.
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Re: Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine? [RK250] [ In reply to ]
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I might have to give tightening them down a go after tomorrows ride, and try to focus more on balancing for a long stretch of ride and see if it's me or the pedals. I assume that after you re-tightened them down you performed a dynamic calibration or just the usual "pre ride" calibration?
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Re: Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine? [PatrickOfSteele] [ In reply to ]
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Patrick, I was instructed to pull the batteries, wait 30 seconds, put 'em back in and reset the angles. I noticed you're on Garmin 510, I'm on the 500. Your 510 on setting angle is pretty straight forward as per the videos on the owners site. BTW, Oct 1st there was a firmware update. You knew? You downloaded the Garmin Express as well? Curious, did you get a crowfoot with yours?
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Re: Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine? [RK250] [ In reply to ]
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Yep,I had about 8 weeks of going back and fourth with garmin regarding a pedal issue where I was getting literally no data, so when we swapped complete systems the new vector box came with it's own crow foot, but I had purchased previously to install the older (and assumed working) pedals.

Everything is updated, and if they had you pull the batteries then yeah I will need to set my angles again.
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Re: Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine? [PatrickOfSteele] [ In reply to ]
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as long as you're only using one powermeter accuracy doesn't matter, only repeatability and precision.
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Re: Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine? [PatrickOfSteele] [ In reply to ]
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That looks about right, assuming that ride was on the road. If I avg around 20 mph my watts are almost always around 200-215 NP, closer to 200 AP. I'm a little smaller than you, but I have found that on an out and back, no matter what the wind, solo ride, the higher the watts, the faster the avg speed. So your file looks pretty spot on.
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Re: Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine? [npage148] [ In reply to ]
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npage148 wrote:
as long as you're only using one powermeter accuracy doesn't matter, only repeatability and precision.




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Re: Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine? [fwrunco] [ In reply to ]
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Actually, looking again, you have a tss of over 200 for a 1 hour ride. So that is impossible. And you NP is super high (269) so maybe the higher efforts are giving you inflated power numbers.
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Re: Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine? [npage148] [ In reply to ]
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npage148 wrote:
as long as you're only using one powermeter accuracy doesn't matter, only repeatability and precision.


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Re: Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine? [fwrunco] [ In reply to ]
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The ride consisted of 5-6 20s hard, 20s easy, a 6-7 ish minute TT effort and a push up a hill. Everything else was cruising and seeing what happened if I switched gears and whatnot, and reading about NP and TSS I guess those numbers may make sense?
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Re: Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine? [PatrickOfSteele] [ In reply to ]
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If you can't borrow a powertap wheel or hook up onto a CompuTrainer or Kickr to compare, you can do some rides with others and inquire about their comparative power output. Pick a flat area, hold the bars the same and ride side by side. If your meter says you are laying down 300w and your mate is doing 225w then it may be hard to explain it all by differences in frontal area. This approach will tell you if you have a big deviation, but it won't get you dialed in. It is just a finger to the wind test.
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Re: Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine? [PatrickOfSteele] [ In reply to ]
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PatrickOfSteele wrote:
A bit of background, I have no past history with using a power meter, and haven't really delved into power meters in relation to performance, average power output for cyclists based on cat level etc etc etc. I purchased a Garmin Vector a few weeks ago and I'm in the process of getting used to training with it, ordered books and the such. I took it out today for the first time on the road and did some hammering and a few longer intervals to see kind of what I was measuring.

I'm nowhere near being an amazing cyclist, I race primarily cyclocross as a Cat 2 who upgraded too quickly, 5 ft 8 165 lbs as of this morning. I'm trying to figure out if the numbers that I'm putting down are accurate to where I should be at, or if I should take it with a grain of salt and consider that it's reading high.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/616745205
This was the workout today, and the past three days have some rides, however are indoor trainer rides.


They've been installed per protocol, no washers needed but still space between the crank and the pedal pod, torqued down to 25 lb-ft, dynamic calibration done upon initial setup and calibrated per the edge 510 before each ride.

Do this to check the static torque: https://support.garmin.com/...f27b-000000000000%7D

If that checks out good, then you'll have a MUCH higher confidence in the power values, since power is merely torque X crank rotational velocity.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine? [TriBrad02] [ In reply to ]
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TriBrad02 wrote:
As long as it is consistent across all future sessions then it can do for you what it's suppose to.

god damnit, no!
it must be accurate!!
ARAGHAGHAGH



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine? [npage148] [ In reply to ]
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npage148 wrote:
as long as you're only using one powermeter accuracy doesn't matter, only repeatability and precision.


NOOOOOOO



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine? [PatrickOfSteele] [ In reply to ]
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I am about your size, and just looking at your ride I would say that your recorded power is in the right range.
Not sure where you get 250w from, as your average power was only 213w for the ride? All the numbers have a meaning, not just the ones you choose to remember.
You would benefit from having heart rate data as well - to help work out your training zones, among other things.
I recommend that you should read some books on the subject such as 'Training and racing with a power meter' by Allen and Coggan
I also found that using training software, such as Golden Cheetah, was useful when starting out with power measurement, as it gave a real insight to what my body was doing when exercising, especially as the ride database increased in size.
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Re: Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
TriBrad02 wrote:
As long as it is consistent across all future sessions then it can do for you what it's suppose to.

god damnit, no!
it must be accurate!!
ARAGHAGHAGH

Yes, must must MUST be accurate. What was I thinking.
In Reply To:

Formerly TriBrad02
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Re: Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine? [TriBrad02] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine? [PatrickOfSteele] [ In reply to ]
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maybe you're looking for this





which translates into this


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Re: Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine? [vancity] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
odd
I am married to dirk diggler

That's got to be uncomfortable....


Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca
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Re: Power meter and accuracy, how accurate is mine? [RChung] [ In reply to ]
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RChung wrote:
npage148 wrote:
as long as you're only using one powermeter accuracy doesn't matter, only repeatability and precision.





Unless you want to brag about your numbers a powermeter is a tool to guide racing and training, and accuracy has no bearing on its ability to do that. As long as it spits out a consistent number session after session who cares if 250w is actually 225w or 280w

http://www.bikeradar.com/...-power-meters-38377/
Last edited by: npage148: Oct 20, 14 15:00
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