Sticking with a HR target on the bike, and not pegging it on the climbs really helps me have a good run. Are you using HR or just RPE?

The first third of the bike should have felt ridiculously easy and you should have seen a fair number of your competition passing you.

The second third should still have felt too easy but not quite so ridiculously as the first third.

The final third should begin to feel as if you're actually been doing some work but still pretty darn easy.

If you're ever going so hard that you're breathing hard on the bike then it's too hard. It should have been a long easy ride.

Almost all new and the majority of experienced IMers over bike compared to what would give them the best overall time.

How much were you running in the last 4 months before the event? How have you decided on what an appropriate goal would be for the IM marathon? What's you're best open 1/2 marathon time or 10k time?

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

what does your training tell you you were capable of riding? An honest review of your training will tell you more than a few people guessing that you did or didn't overbike/under run train.

I'll give you an example of what you should be looking for. Had an athlete come to me consistently riding ~ 5:25-5:40 for 105-115 miles on long training rides, mostly steady state.

Race day rides 5:10 you can probably guess how the run turned out

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Is there a reasonable way to extrapolate your average half IM bike and run times/power to give you some guidance for an IM bike proper pace, whether by HR or power?

I've done okay on the half IM runs but my IM runs always leave a little to be desired and I feel I never hit my full potential on an IM run (I've done nearly 20 IMs). My mentally if I go 13 min faster on the bike I can run 30 secs slower per mile on the run - I can get away with this mentality on a half but it hasn't worked very well on a full.

Unfortunately only RPE for the race. I have a heart rate monitor that I mess around with during training but I was worried that it would drain my watch battery too much. Which sadly my watch died on the run anyways.

I probably over biked a little but I almost am never breathing hard during the bike. Maybe a little during the climbs but I thought I was pacing reasonably but this is my first true IM (Did IM Florida in 2014 but the swim was cancelled) and I was in a lot worse shape than now.

I was running my usual running for the spring summer (~25 miles/week) but I used to run more like 15 miles per week with a 3:12 open mary. Don't think I've run a open half before. I ran a 1:28 half mary split to a full marathon that I died to a 3:13:XX.

I know people are going to destroy me after this but over-biking is a symptom of poor bike training, not poor run training. Follow me through here, if you can normally run a 10K in say, 52 minutes, not extremely fast but better than most people off the street. If you are running the 10K in 1:10 in an Oly, then the problem was your bike fitness. In order to bike the speed you wanted to go and still run close to your open 10K pace, your fitness needs to improve on the bike. I am not saying don't dump a bunch of training into the run, that will always pay dividends for you. What I am saying is that if it is clear that you are capable of biking the speed you want, if it impacts your run you need to improve a certain percentage on the bike so you don't burn up your running energies.

I did write up all of this kind of info but thought maybe people had general indications of whether they over biked or were under trained (pacing was weird, cramps in the legs, etc.).

Honestly, I haven't been biking enough to know what I am capable of. I have only really been riding since April. I did some riding in 2014 for IM Florida but I only ride during the spring/summer. So I am still trying to understand my capability. Only a few weeks before this race I "learned" how to ride in pain. I increased my training rides by at least 1mph just by pushing harder. I did the Eagleman ride this year in 2:58:XX but was in a lot worse shape than I am now.

This is not right. If you are very fit, you need to be working HARD the whole 112 miles. Nothing will feel "easy."

If you are newer, then this might be correct. You need to know your experience.

Easy answer is to get a PM. They are cheap enough now, and such a valuable training tool.

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New Training/Racing Log - http://www.earthdaykid.com/blog --- Old Training/Racing Log - http://colinlaughery.blogspot.com

Maybe the bike race course was all down hill? :)

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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So are you saying that an IF of say .75 should feel hard? I'd contend for someone who is fit it will feel very easy for hours. Certainly not hard at all in the beginning. Anyone riding hard from the get-go is setting themselves up for a world of hurt and a large drop off in the power they put out later on.

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

Riding above a .80

That feels hard, and continues to feel hard for four plus hours.

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New Training/Racing Log - http://www.earthdaykid.com/blog --- Old Training/Racing Log - http://colinlaughery.blogspot.com

We must have very different definitions of what hard riding feels like.From my perspective of riding with power for 25 years, and IF of .80 does not begin to feel hard until you get out into the 6+ hour duration. Certainly not the least bit for the first several hours.

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

Nice try. 2.5/10

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blog

If you're using power why don't you just look at what you've produced for the time duration you expect to ride or rides in the 100-120 mile range?

If using some other method then you should be taking careful notes about what you're doing in training. That way you know what you can do come race day. Rarely will someone pull a rabbit out of their ass in an IM. You're either racing to your fitness or you're over racing your fitness. If over racing your fitness then it's going to be a long day. It boils down to user error 90+% of the time.

There are 2 main user errors in IM racing. Not training enough for the pace(s) you want to ride/run. Riding/running faster (well rarely does one end up running faster) than what your training has prepared you to do. Both lead to slower times than racing slower for more of the race so you can be faster over the last 2 hours. It's easy to be an idiot and lose 45,60,90+ min. I'm pretty sure that making up 10 min over what you should in the bike when it costs you 30 min slower on the run isn't a good strategy. but I suck at math so....

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

nice try?

So what I am getting from all of this is that I probably won't be able to figure out what happened this past race but get a power meter for the next or just train more so I understand my pacing better.

Isn't time just about the worst metric you can use to evaluate what you can do on race day? Traffic, stopping at intersections, slowing down / stopping to refuel, etc. all that slows down your time (not to mention that most of us don't train in full race gear).

Most of my training rides have times that are nowhere close to my race times (even though they sometimes have similar power outputs).

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not necessarily. If you know you ride 5:30-5:45 and you try to ride 5:10 on race day you'll have issues more often than not.

I know all my aero goodies are worth about 10 min so if I'm doing my long rides (got a sweet 108 4 loop route with only 1 U turn and 1 left hander and I'm riding them in 5:06 at about 205w, I know I can safely ride about 4:55 and be fine when it comes to running.

The problems lie with people who go ride 6h at 16mph then attempt to race at 21 miles an hour.

If you know you can repeat those long rides in say 5:30 +/- 10 min then targeting 5:20 is probably going to be fine. Targeting 5:05 means you're being delusional.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

NICE, just go away.

To the OP:

In most cases it is a combo of not enough bike and run fitness.

I'd go by heart rate and RPE. RPE requires experience over the race distance, though. Most people with PM's can't do RPE...that's why they need a PM.

I do not think 25 m/pw is enough running for a good Mary time or a decent Mary in an IM (as your times show).

How do you define 'very fit'? I.e. at what sort of point does it switch over from being 'easy' to harder? Is it roughly 5 hours for the bike split?

Yeah same. To be honest my first 3 or 4 70.3s I was quite intimidated going into the race as the times in my training rides were pretty average. But there are so many variables. Today I did a 40k TT and the time/av speed were poor, but it was an old unused road with crappy tarmac and a stinking headwind. I'd normally sit on 36/37km/hr in a race, today I was averaging about 30 and at times was down as low as 24km/hr. Time can only be used as a very rough guide.

My best training ride of 180k is 50min slower than my best ride at IMNZ this year. I ran the fastest run split in my ag off the bike too so Ill also disagree with your theory. I do all my riding solo, not sure if that makes a difference.

To the OP just wondering what your nutrition was like. I think that plays a bigger part a lot of the time than overbiking.