Thanks for the link.

A quick note: this study has two categories of doping: physical doping and "cognitive" doping. Caffeine qualifies for the latter. Your usual cocktail of anabolics, hgh, and EPO are in the former.... which is still 13% of responders.

Edit: I'm skimming the study itself... no mention of their finish times? In the first article it's noted that it's "not just at the pointy end" but are dopers, on average, in the top 1/3rd of finishers? As an aside, I suspect the numbers in NA would be higher.

It looks like their definition of "doping" was so broad that lots of legal substances that are allowed by WADA would get you classified as a "doper." I'd love them to break it out by substance and see how many people admitted to EPO, steroids, HGH vs. caffeine tablets and protein powder. Without a breakout it's just sensationalist dribble IMO.

---

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Discussed here last year when this was originally posted http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...post=4933925#4933925

---

Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

It seems like self reporting may be inaccurate? I suspect there may be some value, but it seems like there may be under-reporting as some people may be reluctant to admit even anonymously.

---

Andy

so you are saying the number is higher then 1 in 7.....

I thought I was having deja vu.

---

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

If 1 in 7 actually admit it then the actual number is certainly higher. I'd say 20% is a decent place to start. Probably much higher in the M30-54 AG's.

I'd love for Ironman to randomly test the top-15 in the five AG's of M30-54 at some event. I think the number of positive tests would be alarming. I'd actually be more surprised if there were more negative results than positive.

---

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Lmao wtf why are they doing that they're ag not winning anything. no point gettin on tha gear isn't gonna make it more fun or anything

Sorry for repeating the post, was not aware this was posted before.

So we can assume Ironman don't have stricter AG testing at regional championships ?

I agrre no matter how anonymous there's always a reasonable amount of people who won't admit to dishonest or illegal acts.

I guess most think it's fairly harmless and perhaps so widespread they may be at a disadvantage if they don't juice ?

For those of us who have been around the sport long enough, the fast guys have always been the fast guys...guys like Ken Glah, who went 8:09 back in the day. When guys come out of the woodwork and suddenly in 3-4 years they make these massive improvements and are beating guys like Ken, then yeah, I question it, because the pecking order has always been the pecking order and you pretty well slide in where you fit in on the totem pole...position is the same as 20 years ago, we're just all slower....sure there are some new guys, but I doubt that very few would have been as fast as Kenny (insert your favourite pro <here>) back in the day!

So it is what it is. Time are getting faster across the board....deeper pool of athletes with more volume, but more doping for sure. Times are not getting faster in 20-34 though based on what I have seen and even in 35-39 it's not that much faster. But certainly 40-59 its another story altogether...sucks to be "us' in 40-59!

Dev, how at Moats? I believe he was always fast.

.

---

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I see your point, and I agree with you.
But is it any different from an old fat guy dropping $4000 on a spanking new TT rig and aero helmet when he can barely get lower than an upright position.
It's just another way for an average athlete to throw money at a problem without putting in the hard work.

I'd be all for that. WTC you can add whatever it costs to do this to my next race entry.

What's the point if you're an AG to dope and win something?

People dope as much if not more so for psychological reasons than to get any "glory" or material gains.

Or getting more out of their hard work. Not to mention the drugs allow one to work harder without breaking down.

''Or getting more out of their hard work. Not to mention the drugs allow one to work harder without breaking down.''


These people aren't working harder. According to the article they're training 14 to 15 hours a week for IM. Looks like they just want to make it easier on themselves. It's a shame that they don't show their results but then it wouldn't be anonymous. Hard work always pays off. Doing drugs without the hard work just makes you a cheater.

---

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

1 in 7 is well in the normal range. 18% to 20% is common in cheating surveys. So Triathletes if anything are reasonably honest compared to most walks of life.

I could easily get over-trained on 14 or 15 hours a week if it included a lot of intensity. As for any given individual who can say, my point was simply drugs don't necessarily mean getting something for nothing. Hard work does pay off, but it pays more with drugs.

Sad thing is that it seems like in todays society cheating is the way to get ahead. Cheat in school, cheat at work, cheat at your recreation; all the same thing.

Just what is the limit on caffeine anyway? At some races it looks like people are banging down enough RedBull to keep them up for a week?

---

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Yep. And I'd bet that a majority of their 'doping' has absolutely nothing to do with sport. A majority of people I meet at races see triathlon for exactly what it is, a hobby that they enjoy. So the WADA list of banned chemicals means nothing to them since they have a life outside of sport. I'm of the opinion that there's a few 'serious' triathletes who could use a reminder that sport is supposed to be fun and there's other stuff outside of sport that's important too. I'm not condoning or excusing anything related to doping. I just recognize and accept that their attitude towards sport is much different than mine.

---

---

---

Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

I will turn 40 this year and if there's one thing I notice is how damn fast that AG is...I know some of it can be attributed to better nutrition, training methods, and gear, but not all of it!

One thing that can be a factor is the growing number of participants. So many new ppl are attempting Ironman that there's bound to be some naturals in there. Also,many athletes transfer over to tri after their glory days of SBR (or other sport) are not what they used to be.

In case someone didn't carefully read the actual survey question at the bottom of the article, here it is...

Have you used substances which can only be prescribed by a doctor, are available in a pharmacy, or can be bought on the black market (such as anabolic steroids, erythropoietin, stimulants, growth hormones)...

Now, if I answered this honestly, I would have to say yes. I typically only take ibuprofen and caffeine tabs plus a few vitamins whenever I race. Given that these are available in an American pharmacy, does that make me a doper? In my limited experience in Eurpean pharmacies (this survey was done in Germany), their definition of "pharmacy" is different (asking for Claritin D with pseudoephedrine for my sick wife elicited a reaction akin to asking a nun for sex).

I would love to see RDs issue a mandatory post-race survey that everyone must complete for their results to be included: you must list all meds/vitamins by category and potential infractions (littering, drafting more than 1', etc). Any infraction noted by the refs (and random bogus drug test--those to be tested notified when they hand in the survey) AND listed on your survey would incur a 75% reduction (e.g. 1' time penalty rather than 4' for drafting; results removed but no "doping" label if you failed the bogus blood test). Infractions not noted by refs are not assessed and surveys anonymised (i.e. not attached to your record in any way). Then again, maybe I don't want to see those results.

There is no limit. It's on the 2015 "Monitoring List." That means it's not prohibited at any dose, but they're watching it for signs of abuse.

Dev,

I think some of the fast guys who have always been fast guys are doping to stay one of the fast guys. They are breaking down after many years of heavy training and racing so they need help to keep up with guys with talent who got into tri later in life, or took a long break from competition, and are fresher physically and mentally.

I don't think that about Ken Glah. He is very talented as a triathlete, his ego can handle being beat by guys who couldn't have beaten him back in the day, and was smart to develop a business where training for and traveling to races is part of his job. He doesn't have to fit training around a stressful "normal" job. That's my assumption. Someone let me know if I'm incorrect about how Glah makes a living these days.