When I rode tubs, I liked the Vittoria Open Corsa CX, never got a puncture on one and good CRR due to the latex inner, although this does mean you'll be pumping them up before most rides.

I like the conti competition all around although I'm not seeking every second out of it for race day. I value the flat protection a little over rolling resistance. but they only come with butyltubes.

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-shoki

25mm conti competition....

Everything Vitoria, Veloflex and Schwalbe I have tried has suffered markedly in terms of durability, and for little if Any improvement in ride feel...
None have been better for mixed conditions grip either... iME the black chilli compound is about as good as it gets..

Schwalbe Ultremo HT are still my favourite do-everything tubs. Pop a bit of Stan's in and you're good for 1500 miles.

New Zipp tubular is nice as is the Specialzed. Tubulars are supposed to be fast, so I just can't get excited about the Conti's or Schwable with butyl tubes.

One issue to consider is wheel and tire width. Most of the new tubulars are on the wide side. I get the impression that you are going tubulars on the TT bike because you can get a deal on a used set. Skinny older tubular wheels matched with a modern wide tire are a recipe for SLOW. The cumulative effect of poor wheel/tire choice can easily cost you 10+ watts over something like a Flo 30 with 4000s tires and latex tubes.

If you are using an older Zipp (pre Firecrest) or similar, go with a 21 mm Vittoria CX or a Veloflex. The 2010 and later HED Stingers are fast.

My first opinion is that using tubulars for racing triathlons is sub optimal, clinchers are better.


My second opinion, which is much stronger, is that using the same tubulars for training and racing is a really really bad idea, and completely unnecessary, get some training wheels.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Hey Jack, get ready to freak out. The bike next to mine on the rack at a race last year had 404 Firecrests with Gatorskin tubulars. That made me sad.

The most recent Schwalbe tire I got has a butyl tube, so those are dead to me. I have some Vittoria Evo CXs, but next on the list are the new Zipp or Specialized tubulars. I really like the new Specialized clinchers and unless they are doing something stupid, the tubulars should be fast.

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/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

Vittoria corsa cx is probably the best tubular bet, challenge also makes nice tires. Jury is still out on the new zipps but they'll probably be good.

Good for you for not letting your nice wheels sit and do nothing 355 days a year.

Thanks for the reply. I hadn't really put that much thought into tire width/size and matching it up with the wheel. I'll keep that in mind.

Interesting to hear your thoughts on this. In your personal opinion, then, is there any real performance benefit to buying a set of tubulars nowadays with the improvements that have been made in clincher tires?

And regarding your opinion on not using the same tubulars for training and racing, can I ask why you think it's such a bad idea? (asking because I honestly want to know).

Correct, the best clincher tires have rolling resistance as good or better than the best tubulars. There are more choices for excellent clincher tires right now than tubulars as well. Also you get the flexibility of easily swapping tires for particular races. For instance, you could run supersonics for dry weather on good roads and have a *really* fast tire. Or swap on a set of 4000S if it looks like rain and you want better durability. Also, carrying a flat kit for tubulars is more cumbersome.

Why not to race and train on the same tire (especially with tubies)

1. You wear down your race tires, get cuts in them etc, and make them more likely to flat on race day, and changing the tire isn't cheap or easy if you decide they look too beat up days before the race.

2. You wear down your race wheels, making it more likely that they will need to have the hubs serviced just before a race, or pop a spoke on race day

3. You tend to chose a more durable, slower tire, since changing tires with tubies is expensive and annoying, so you go slower on race day

4. You can obtain a set of training wheels for free. You probably already have them, why not use them?


Using your race wheels from time to time to practice is smart, and using them for the really hard group ride you do from time to time is fun and that is fine. But using them every day is generally a bad idea. Just get two sets of race wheels if you want to do that.

Opinions provided!

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

The issue that I see is not so much tubular vs clincher, but the popularity of clincher wheels and improvements in design over the past 10 years. Likely going forward over the next 5 years you will see much less demand and there fore R&D by companies into making a great tubular tire and or wheel. Hence the great choices are getting smaller and smaller, right now we are possibly limited to one or two choices from Vittoria or Challenge and maybe the new Zipps.

I still train on tubulars, use my race tires for 500km and then cycle them onto my training wheels. I do like the options better on tubulars for flat change, speed of fixing a problem in a race etc over clinchers, but this is personal�most people who are new to the sport likely won't take the time to learn how glue a tire properly or how to fix a problem quickly.

Maurice

If you glue a tubular such that you can change it really quickly, your likely are getting a bit of a CRR penalty too. The best CRR results come with using a lot of glue such that it is really hard to get the tire off.

I think you will be ok with tubular wheels. I think the tech there has hit the point of diminishing returns. The tire options seem to be what is lacking. But there are still good ones, and tubulars are still lighter so far 2 or 3 triathlons in the world you would want them if you are aiming to win.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Box cutter and a filed or slightly sharper (wider) tire lever, even with the 2 and 3 glueing method personally I can do a tubular change quicker than a clincher change, less steps and all that. When you start cutting and have practiced a bit, the tire comes off quickly.

Personally, I have had great success with sealant and pit stop/fast air in tubulars, as first and second line of defence. The above is the third option. Not really sure how well sealant/pit stop options work with clinchers�..Over the past 4 years I have had one situation in training only where I have had to go to the third step and actually change a tire�.blown side wall when I put the pit stop in, it was an older tire.

As I said if you are new, and not really familiar (or haven't practiced) with how to change a tubular then it could mean the end of your race. The "possible" benefits of having sealant and or Pit stop etc work better may over ride that risk for some.

The debate on CRR and aero clincher vs tubular has been hashed out on many threads here, no real arguments from me.

Maurice

The odds of flatting are really low anyway, as long as you don't train on your race tires all the time =)

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

My second opinion, which is much stronger, is that using the same tubulars for training and racing is a really really bad idea, and completely unnecessary, get some training wheels.

This. If you actually care about how fast you go, use track tires for racing. Maybe even *silk* track tires.

Curious about this (see bold). Are you saying that the aero penalty of using the new 24mm Zipp tubular on a pre-Firecrest Zipp tubular outweighs the Crr advantage the new tires have? I asked Zipp about this and they said they saw no issues with using the new Zipp tire with the older rim. Perhaps they were just concerned about gluing.

Its impossible to know for sure but the trend seems to be matcch the tire width to the brKe track width ideally and no wider than wheel width for aerodynamics.

That said, if you look at Tom's calculations for the sworks 24, good crr can make up for worse aerodynamics.

Zipp 303 outside width 26.3mm
aerodynamics of 22 vs 23 vs 25mm tires on the zipp 303


Of course, those tires aren't exactly that width installed and inflated. But the attack sure isn't 26mm either.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

but then we get the tunnel data that show a 23mm GP4000s is faster than a 20mm Conti Supersonic.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Yep, on a different wheel, in a P5.

Such his life.

all of these options are fast, however. thank science.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

This has me picking the known over the unknown. I KNOW the difference between a fast-rolling and a slow-rolling tire thanks to Tom A. I don't know the aero hit at a "typical race yaw sweep" between a 22mm tire and a 24mm tire.

Pick the fastest tires you feel comfortable running. Now I wouldn't put a 27mm tire on an H3 in front, but I may run one on a 900 disc in the rear.

The Schwalbe Ironman was a really fast tire that was also narrow. That's why it's such a bummer they switched to butyl.

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/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

I think your data doesn't prove the ability to be certain about tire width on a completely different wheel.

you make good points. relatively narrow on the front (23mm or so) and whatever you want on the back on preferably a wide disc like the Jet+ disc or the Super9. A 10% reduction in Crr offsets the increase in CdA, if any.

if you're choosy and lucky, there are some really fast rolling 22mm Attacks out there, and then you get both.

none of this is any good for tubular though, unless your wide tire on back is a new Zipp.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”