Thanks for the additional info, Jorge. Every bit helps.

Couple of things...

As you noted, every washing or rain ride or sweaty trainer session will increase the risk of moisture getting in contact with things that rust. No bike is waterproof. Most people understand that powerwashing is bad news for forcing water into places it doesn't belong...but if you think about it, high pressure air can force that surface moisture past the seals too...and I'm not just talking about those exterior orange seals, but the seals on the bearings themselves. That's where I'm thinking your rust issues are the worst and why it keeps coming back. Regardless of how moisture got in there, if you've got rust started behind the bearing seals you can clean and regrease the exterior seals and surfaces all you want and the reaction keeps on going behind the seals.

None of that is to say there isn't a potential bearing or seal quality issue going on. Simply pointing out that, as you note, protecting that area is hard to begin with...and once compromised, there's not a lot you're going to be able to do about it short of replacement.

Sounds like you're doing most of the things which make sense as far as reducing risk. I'd just be careful with the compressed air around any bearings and/or bushings.

The Quality rep in my department says he's looking into it...that's all I know right now.

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Carl Matson

If you haven't seen it, the SC service manual recommends a specific grease and greasing tips for the BB/crank installation.

I don't think the exterior bearing seals are your problem here. It looks like fluid is migrating through the bearing from the inside and destroying the bearing after the grease inside is compromised.

If you have that much fluid coming out of your bottom bracket and have been careful about sweat migration while training indoors then it is more likely accumulation from riding in the rain, fluid from T1 when racing and/or washing your bikes. For some reason the SC really seems to take a lot of water in through the seatpost interface. We have two in the family and travel a lot with them. Regularly removing the seatpost shows a lot of fluid and grit migration around the post. We have Di2 w/aftermarket batteries in the seatposts and we have to be careful about sealing and cleaning the battery plugs in this location. I have never bothered trying to seal or grease around the seatpost because it is a fine line between wedge torque and seatpost slippage on the gen1 bikes.

The first year we had these bikes we raced in some inclement weather and salt water swims a number of times. Despite flushing the bikes with fresh water and carefully drying after these events, both the bottom bracket and headset bearings failed in the first 6 months. I use the Trek recommended Rock n Roll grease and apply it liberally to all bearing seal faces during installation. This really seemed to help with the small upper bearing on the SC9 (which I don't think is a consideration for the first gen SC7 series).

It could be that you don't have all that much fluid entering the BB, but it is being trapped and directly channeled to the backside of the bearings. Have you been replacing the axle shields in the BB at the same time you have replaced the bearings? Are you greasing the interface where the axle shields overlap during installation? I'd grease the backside of the shield flanges too. See the info on Page 18 of the service manual I linked above for axle shield install info and 23-26 for Shimano bearing/crank greasing install info.

I rarely wash any of my bikes with soap and water anymore. They have to be very dirty for me to do so. Typically I use Pledge and if dirtier then a bit of Windex or similar cleaner first. The BB is the low point on bikes so you could consider drying yours upside down if it gets really wet.

Hope this helps. Let us know if you find a solution.

I am sure you want to wash your bike to keep it shiny since it is a sexy machine, and you paid a lot for it. But, I honestly don't understand why you would "wash" your bike. I am only imagining using a hose and bucket of water-probably carefully, but there is no way I would willingly spray my bike down-especially since I know grease and water don't mix well-especially if you remember when we were kids and would leave our bikes out...chain would always rust.

My response isn't mean to be mean. I am just saying maybe you should rethink hosing your ride down. Use glass cleaner on a rag, or a damp rag vs. spraying with water.

I too received my Project One Speed Concept last Saturday. A big shock when I noticed the spelling of the personalization/custom text was wrong! Everything else was perfect and as ordered. Jeez, how could such a mistake be made?! Now Trek is making me choose between a new frame/bike, or 500 euro's.
I want(ed) a perfect bike so I'll probably return this one, wait another 9 weeks for a new one. Very disappointing :(.
What would you do?

Hey Carl,

I think I've asked this before but it's an ongoing issue and I'm looking for alternative solutions now. The fork on my 9 series P1 is able to turn far enough that the outside edge hits the frame in both directions. The rubber stopper underneath the fork wasn't enough to prevent fork/frame contact. My LBS was able to get my frame sent back for touch up paint but it's now a month later and I'm still having the same issue plus the rubber stopper is now missing. I don't know if Trek did anything to improve the clearance while they had the bike but I do have a couple questions:

1) Is the rubber piece something my LBS can order?
2) what adhesive should be used to attach it? I don't believe whatever my LBS used was the proper stuff.
3) Can the steering stop under the rubber bumper be built up with something that can take pressure/vibration that I could source? I.E. JB Weld(may totally be the wrong stuff but that's along the lines what I'm thinking).

I know these are first world problems but after paying for P1, I'd like to keep the bike as best looking as possible. While the head tube area is strong, I can't imaging the frame/fork interference is good for the carbon fiber.

Thanks,
Chris

Hi Chris-

1) It's not something currently available for order separately...it's part of small parts kit 437032. If your Trek dealer wants more information they should contact their rep.
2) Notes on the OE tape
3) Warranty implications aside, I might try going with the suggestions at the link in #2 before I tried anything else.

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Carl Matson

Carl,

Can the Bontrager Aura 5 be rebuilt using a Powertap hub?

If you can find a 24h powertap hub, figure out the spoke lengths, and find someone to build it for you to whatever spoke tension specs Powertap requires, physically it should be possible. I don't think you'd have warranty standing where the rim is concerned after that, though.

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Carl Matson

Thanks!

Anyone have experience with wide rims (Flo or HED Jet+) on a first generation speed concept (2011 7.0 with an Omega front brake in my case)?

In particular how is the brake pad clearance? Will I need to file down my pads? Any issues with a disc and the duotrap sensor?

Thanks in advance!

if you put

SC omega

into the forum search box, and open any link which has Speed Concept in the title, you'll probably come across a number of users who have both that brake and some wide rims.

as for the disk and duotrap, it depends. most work fine, some are known not to work (Shimano PRO, Mavic), and some work sometimes depending on how well the wheel is centered (Lightweight).


ETA: typo fix

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Carl Matson

I think your best bet is to run a flat disc.... or test/try-out the particular lent. disc (as-in the exact same wheel you'd walk out the door w/ in your frame) to be sure of duotrap clearance.

Not exactly an option with Flo but not a bad idea.. Maybe I can find someone with a set I can test out.

The Omega (all versions) can open up to 32mm wide at the top of the brake track. It's compatible with every run on the market, with full size pads, no need for shaving. It doesn't matter what frame you use it with. But yes, we've had lots of SC7 customers use them with wide rims. As Carl mentioned, many of them have probably posted in this forum. Thanks!

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TriRig.com

Hi Carl,
I need to know bolt size and diameter for the 3 bolts that hold the speed fin. I know they are part of kit 437032 but I can't find their specifications.

Thanks

I have an Omega (gen 1 upgraded with gen 2 arms & pad holders) on my gen 1 SC 7.2 of similar vintage. I've used it with both Flo & Zipp Firecrest front wheels. It works but may take some fiddling. I had to stack all of the bolt spacers in order to get it far enough in front of the fork, and I still had one side that touched the fork slightly with the Zipp wheels and left a small mark on the fork. I was going to use a file to just take a little bit off the corner of the pad holder off but instead swapped a more worn set of brake pads and that gave me enough clearance.

I haven't used a disk in the rear but am considering getting a cover for my 808 and it's clear I'll have to trim the rubber gasket into which the duotrap sensor fits, it looks tight but I think it'll work. A flat disk would be no problem, some lenticular disks may be a problem.

(2) M4 x 10mm stainless
(1) M4 x 22mm stainless

why?

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Carl Matson

Thanks for the info! I did find a set to try out and a disc and 60 both fit. The disc on the duotrap was close but it had enough clearance!

I didn't have any trouble with the omega. just unscrewed the set bolts a bit and it fit perfect.

Thanks Carl :-) I ordered the bike from my LBS yesterday.

Just to be sure: Both short and long extension should work for me? I ordered "long".

Best regards,
Povl

Yes. The short ergo can handle pad (center)-to-shifter distances up to 370mm

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Carl Matson

Gents, this may have been covered to death, but is there anything out there to figure out what size I would need? I'm a road racer making my first jump into the TT scene. I'm 5'6, I ride a 52 Specialized Venge road bike (49-50ish). I've found a deal on a Small '12 SC 9.8, which I would think would fit perfect. Although i've heard TT bikes need to be smaller? Thoughts guys?

Not much to work with there...but at that height and road bike size I'd say a Small SC is the most likely size for you...I just can't hazard any guess as to which stem or how many spacers you're going to need under the pads. A stock small 9 series SC from 2012 comes with the 60/45 stem and that's not a bad place to start. It just may not be where you end up after you either go for a proper fitting or after you do some experimentation on your own.

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Carl Matson

Not sure how much this correlates, but here are some road bike measurements. Measurements are all BB to handlebar. Reach 450mm +/-, Stack 595mm +/-, Saddle heigh (to saddle rail, not top) 643mm.

Carl, I came across this doing some searches. I'll likely be buying a SC 7 soon and was looking into PMs. Quarq told me that I could go with the Elsa RS (compatible with the Shimano 4-bolt chain rings) but that I'd have to get a GXP BB from Trek. When I asked about this, I was told:

All of our power meters that are not a BB30 will run a GXP spindle. This would require a GXP bottom bracket and won't work in Shimano BB's. The GXP uses a 24 mm on the drive side bearing and a 22 mm on the non-drive side. Shimano uses 24 mm on both sides. Trek does makes a BB90 GXP bottom bracket but the Shimano BB90 won't work for the power meter.

Do you know if I could specify the BB90 GXP at SC 7 purchase time, so I don't have to immediately turn around and buy a new one to change out?

most people with that saddle height (assuming it transferred directly to your TT position...some folks go a little higher) would be on a small. cockpit is still up in the air...so to speak.

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Carl Matson