For a typical triathlete, and masters swimmer for that matter - what they are missing is volume. In actual swimming time, there are *many* people doing less than 2.5 hours per week. At that level of volume, and as you noted the lower stress levels for swimming; there is no real need to periodize, do whatever you need to do in order to get the most quality work done.

Not that there's necessarily a problem with periodization, but at those volumes all you need is more time in the water, do hard work whenever you are there. I and the folks I work with do have seasonal variation to the training, but don't fool yourself that it makes huge differences in performance, it is mostly the volume.

In my opinion that holds at least through 5-6 hours per week of actual swimming time. At that point there may be some benefit to paying serious attention to how you are sequencing your workouts.

As for drills and technique, in my opinion you should never NOT be working on technique - the people who get that and put it to practice are the ones who improve as adults.

To drills specifically and technique generally, how much time you spend on it depends on how much you GET it or how likely you are to get it in the near future. In an adult squad situation there will be a wide variety when doing a drill of people who get it, see how it relates to their stroke and translate it to their swim, people who maybe could get it if they thought about it or if it was presented better, and people who will never get it - either mentally or physically will never truly see any relation of a given drill to successfully implementing something in a stroke.

You have to figure out where you are and do the triage from there on how much time to put into drills.

Couldn't agree more. Most people do not spend enough time in the pool or do enough yardage to see any real improvement. Many are just maintaining their individual status quo.

You want to improve your swimming put in more quality hours/yardage with focus on technique, technique, technique.

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"Just don’t abandon everything you’ve ever learned because of something someone said on the internet." - Eric McGinnis

Interesting.
My most time in the pool last year barely reached 4 hrs a week. But it was the time when I got it what is "high elbow" means.

I think you can till do training from less to more specific. So train more like a swimmer in the offseason, more specific to your race as you get closer.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Get on a masters swim team and you will not have to worry about what to do. They will kick your butt.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Swimmers do follow the periodisation model, doing aerobic work and moving to quality work but as has been indicated, the big difference is they are doing the type of volume where this approach is worthwhile. Not many triathletes would be doing 20+ hrs of swimming/week x 48-50 weeks/ year.

If you are an adult onset swimmer, swim less than 10hrs a week and are looking to improve, don't look at training for the swim like you do for the bike and the run. At that amount of time, swimming is more like golf than biking or running.

The part of your swimming that has the biggest room for improvement is your swim efficiency (technique coupled with training). You want to structure all your workouts to push efficiency in your stroke as the main goal. That means avoid long, slow aerobic swims. Keep the majority of your repeats to less than 100 with a lot of intensity. Add in a bunch of kicking without fins and you'll see huge improvement.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Best regards,

Tim Floyd

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http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com

It would be helpful to know your current swimming level (100 meter pace and distance you sustain that over) to determine where you should invest your off-season energy. Most triathlon swimmers (particularly runners-turned-triathletes) have significant technique deficiencies. They would do well to focus on skill acquisition in the off season over endurance work (not that these are mutually exclusive concepts, but I would treat them as such while upgrading your mechanics.) If you're much slower than 2 minutes per 100, endurance could be the least of your worries.

Have your mechanics evaluated and structure your pool sessions to address any weaknesses / deficiencies. It takes time and commitment to iron these things out. I wholeheartedly agree that a periodized swim plan is not terribly appropriate for triathletes who swim but a handful of hours per week. (And contrary to what I've seen in a lot of Training Peaks workouts, slapping on a few hundred yards per week doesn't really constitute periodized training.)

I swim 1:16/100yd for 1000 scy. Still have plenty of stroke flaws that I'm working on, especially through a once per week swim lesson.
When people talk about "training like a swimmer" in the offseason, does this mean focusing on shorter events? Or focusing on less triathlon-specific skills (I.e. Other strokes, kicking)?

Hi Tim,

do you still publish your masters team's workouts ?

I could not find them on the site

I'm not sure what "training like a swimmer" means, either, as the way we train competitive swimmers is a moving target that's undergoing significant growing pains these days (USRPT training type stuff vs more old school aerobic-based emphasis.) (USRPT stands for Ultra Short Race Pace Training.) At 1:16 per 100 for 1000 yards you're far better than the typical triathlon swimmer (I think that extrapolates out to a sub 1 hour IM swim.)

If you have specific issues being addressed in your weekly lesson, are you building in explicit opportunities to address those on your other swim days? If, for example, you midline/cross over in the front of your stroke, is that something you are attentive to for a few easy laps or drills at the start of a workout, but not something you emphasize in your main training sets? Attentiveness to mechanics always pays off, perhaps more so on your longer and more intense sets. Steer clear of long swims (anything longer than 400 at a pop) while cleaning up your new, emerging skills. A set of 8 x 200 offers more opportunities to monitor your mechanics and mentally re-set when things go awry than a continuous 1600 swim, where focus is likely to drift.

Get a handle on the metrics of your swimming--specifically distance per stroke and tempo. Here are profiles of two swims by a guy in my training group. He posted 1 minute 30 seconds on both swims, but the strategies for achieving those times were wildly divergent:
Swim 1: 16 strokes per length (25 yds), 1:20 tempo trainer setting (50 strokes per minute), 120 heart rate
Swim 2: 23 strokes per length, :80 tempo trainer (75 strokes per minute), 156 heart rate
The first strategy is certainly sustainable--120 heart beats per minute. It wasn't his optimal training combination but it was an efficient one. The second strategy failed him--at a very high tempo his mechanics abandoned him, and he worked much, much harder (156 heart beats) to achieve the same time.

I strongly suggest using a Tempo Trainer to develop an understanding and mastery of the interplay between tempo and distance per stroke. There are lots of swimmers who plod along at unconscionably slow tempos, thinking that low stroke counts are all that matters; there are countless others who subscribe to 'tempo uber alles,' who have been led to believe that nothing matters but cadence. Both are misguided. I would be happy to share with you a test set we do to determine a swimmer's most efficient speed. The results help us pinpoint specific tempo and stroke count objectives in subsequent workouts, which is how we hope to move the needle.

While opinions may vary, I think "training like a swimmer" can be defined as swimming 6 to 10 times per week, 6000 to 8000 yd/m per workout, with a mix of types of training, e.g. everything from all-out 25s on 2:00 from the blocks to 10 x 800m on an interval that gives you roughly 30 sec rest; additionally, every workout will swim at least 1 or 2 other strokes as well as your freestyle. Also, "real swimmers" tend to do lots of kick sets, kicking all 4 strokes, up to 25 to 35% volume-wise of a workout. In summary, "training like a swimmer" means training so hard in the water that you only have a very small amount of energy left, which of course would devoted to three 40 to 60 min dry-land training sessions, which would def include strength training and might include a 30-min run and 30-min stationary bike each week. I know of a couple of local HS teams who run the stairs in the swim natatorium once or twice each week.

A tri person like yourself might train this way for 2 months or so in the winter to try to get their 1000 scy time down to 12:00 or so, i.e. 1:12/100 scy. As tigerpaws has stated though, your current 12:40 (1:16/100 scy) is outstanding for a tri guy:)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Since you asked about periodization....

First realize (as seen by the responses on this thread and other swimming threads) you will get many different answers. People say "bang for the buck". Swimming takes time just like the B/R legs do. There are no shortcuts. Even at 3x a week you can use this. I do and have for the last 10 months with results I like. Keep in mind this is for distance swimmers, not sprinters. With that...

Take your training year and divide into 3 blocks of 14-18 weeks each. Backwards plan from your "A" race with the periodization schedule below.

Endurance Phase (5-6 weeks) -
Longer sets like 3-6 x 400, 500, 600, 800, 1000. Sorry USRPT. Descending and negative splitting. If you do it, swim 2000 for time in this phase taking your 500 splits for record. At the end of these sessions finish with technique work or tempo work. Nothing long. 10 x 25s do just fine.

Threshold Phase (5-6 weeks) -
Here we are working the middle of the swim/race. A main set (MS) might be 1x600 negative split (NS), 4x100 FAST, 1x400NS, 8x50 FAST, 1x200NS, 16x25 FAST. Maybe 15 x 100 on X:XX holding best pace. In this phase not a ton of rest. Part of the goal is to maintain form throughout, ie. threshold. Broken swims also in this phase. 4 x 500. Remember the 2000 for time in last phase and the 500 splits? Try to beat those splits in the broken swim. In this phase is where you might start to look at stroke count. You can keep the same turn-over rate but decrease stroke count. How? By kicking big. Distance swimmers can use a 6-beat kick. Can triathletes use 6 beats and still be ready to bike & run? I dunno. Someone else might chime in if they use a 6-beat kick for HIM or IM. I am working on getting my HIM swim 2-beat kick up. We will see how next season goes with that.

Pace & Power (2-3 weeks) -
Here is where we start to reduce the number of reps and cycle intervals. MS might include pace 50s into 100s. Meaning take your last time in the 50 and double it for your first 100 time. 4 x100 Descend to race pace followed by a 200 fast and 200 easy.

Recovery/Taper (10-14 days) -
Dialing distance down but still do some fast and/or race pace efforts for shorter distance.

You are still getting speed in each of the phases. Negative splits in the endurance and threshold, race pace or better in power and pace phase. Remember technique throughout all phases. If technique starts to go perhaps put on some fins to finish. A pull buoy perhaps. These should help you in holding technique. Well, it should unless you are the person on the other thread where it mysteriously hinders his swim. Paddles, parachutes, cord work (in water) at certain times as well but you only asked about periodization. =)

One of the things I like about this periodization is that it keeps the mind fresh. Only so many ways to swim a 2000. Hope this helps in your quest.

Disclaimer: I am not a fish.

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Formerly TriBrad02

Unfortunately, I had to take them down. There was a great deal of "cutting and pasting" by other coaches without any attribution. That's just not cool. I'll probably put up a week of sample workouts shortly.

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http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com

Interesting viewpoint. If I get tired during drills, why exactly am I "tired?" Is it because my stroke is deficient technique-wise?

You could get tired or feel breathless during drills because there is often very little breathing involved. When doing side kicking drills (also called 'skating position' in Total Immersion) I suggest doing 2-3 inhales/exhales when it's time to get some air. You don't want to return to face down and resume kicking if you haven't really restocked on fuel. This was always an issue coaching age group swimmers, who tended to rush through drills or let the stress of 'not enough air' compromise the quality of their movements. I'm much more aware of how access to air affects ones ability to drill with precision. Snorkel?

Many drills rely on kicking as a primary source of speed, which comes at a very high energy cost. I could swim all day at 110 heart beats per minute; give me a set of drills that involve lots of kicking and I'm gassed after a few laps. I find 10 minutes of drill work far more fatiguing than 10 minutes of swim repeats. If you struggle to create any forward movement when you kick, it's ok to use fins (gently) for assistance (they can actually function as 'training wheels' for better kicking mechanics.)

Cultivating better skills doesn't necessarily mean "do lots of drills." There are many aspects of mechanics best addressed in whole stroke freestyle. Should you do drills, be sure 1) you understand how to do them properly and 2) you understand how they lead to better swimming (if, in fact, they do.) There are two guys at my pool who train together every morning, and one came in saying "I saw this great drill online where you touch your shoulder, touch your head, then enter the water." My question to him would have been "What does this drill offer by way of improved mechanics?" I couldn't figure out a single good reason for doing it, even though I've seen plenty of people do it, and even some world class ones (Diana Munz, multiple Olympic medalist, Erica Rose, open water world champ. I suspect they'd have achieved those things without bothering to do that drill.)

I like to do drills for very short distances, often only a half length. It's more important to accurately imprint the proper movement than it is to cover a specific distance. 10 repeats of 1/2 length, cleanly executed, are far better than 5 x 50 drill where the second length is rushed or sloppy.

In theory you are correct.

However, in reality, as others have hinted at, unless you are on a swim team, and a decent one at that, or you are doing 10+ hours per week in the pool, you need to analogize to what runner who runs 2 miles 3 times a week should do or a cyclist who does 3 easyish 15 miles rides a week should do. Swimming is so low load that you really have to be doing some fairly epic volume, at least by triathlete standards, to be thinking about anything other than how you can swim more and harder.

That being said, it is a good thing to mix up what you are doing, but more from the standpoint that you can use that to increase your work load rather than from a true periodization standpoint of working different systems at different times of the season.

So, do everything you said, just do it all the time.

Better than moving your head out of a neutral position to breathe - do drills with a swimmer's snorkel. In 16 years or competitive swimming (including the US National Team) and 5 years of Masters/Triathlon coaching, there is no single piece of equipment that I can recommend more highly. A front mount snorkel allows for greater concentration on body position and technique. It can also be used for aerobic swim sets. I have found that, especially for adult onset swimmers, doing side kicking or body position kicking (head-lead, arms at sides w/ slight rotiation) without a snorkel actually is more harmful due to the 'cheating' occurring to breathe. (Somewhat unrelated, my favorite thing in the world to do when I'm swimming for general fitness is to go paddles-bouy-snorkel and cruise.)

My goal as a coach (ingrained as a swimmer, I'm sure) was that the best seasons always start with technique work, progressing to aerobic work with technique focus (i.e. distance per stroke), into leg driven swimming/kicking, transitioning into race specific applications (race simulaiton/pace). I always liked to throw a short anaroebic/sprint cycle in between meta-cycles both for interest and to learn about speed.

Finally, the best thing that I found for triathletes to improve upon was kicking. Inevitably the tri-guys in my master's group would bitch and moan about kicking (and try and either pull or put on fins), but I told them they needed to learn how to kick so they didn't have to kick. Body position and efficiency are leg driven, so while triathlon demands fresh legs out of the water, strong legs in the water make the swim a hell of a lot easier.

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I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html

I find myself using the yellow Finis fins when I kick and I only do freestyle kicking. I barely go anywhere when I do not use fins and burn out before I reach the other side of a 25m pool. I try to reposition my lower body to see what works best for speed and not burning out but seem that I still have not found the fight combination. Toes pointed, squeeze buttocks, consistent kicking, straight leg with not much bend and try to roll at the hips. I do like to keep my head in the water and the kickboard about 10 inches under the water as I go. Any suggestions on how to improve my kick and I do admit I hated those master's kick times and those going much faster wo fins and I felt way out of place. Thanks

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Mark E. Goldstein, FACHE, FLEXR Sports sponsored, Brittons Tri Force Member, 7x Ironman finisher (10:37:12 PR exact time on 2x IMs), 20x Half Ironman finisher (4:43 PR), 11x Marathon finisher (2:57 PR)

Ditch the kick board.

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Formerly TriBrad02

take the fins off.

don't "squeeze" anything. hold the board straight out in front (not 10" inches under the surface), you want your hands to be pretty much where they would be at the start of the catch (which should ideally be an inch or 2 below the surface) keep everything below your waist relaxed (but straight)... toes pointed and slightly pigeon toed.. and just kick so your heels bubble the surface of the water. light and quick kicks, not big heavy ones.. hips are stable, not "rolling". any rolling of the hips is in conjunction with your arm cycle, not your legs.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I find my neck bothers me when I keep the kickboard at water level and prefer to keep my head pointed down. I will ditch the fins and not roll. I found the master's swimmers had a lot of splash when they did kick drills and looked very effortless but they were moving fast

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Mark E. Goldstein, FACHE, FLEXR Sports sponsored, Brittons Tri Force Member, 7x Ironman finisher (10:37:12 PR exact time on 2x IMs), 20x Half Ironman finisher (4:43 PR), 11x Marathon finisher (2:57 PR)

in that case, ditch the kickboard altogether and kick on your back...

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I do that sometimes between intervals, say a 50m, to give my some breathing rest. I find a bend at my knees more when I kick on my back and feels counter to freestyle kicking.

Also, what are typical kick sets for 3x per week 3000 to 4000m swim workouts?

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Mark E. Goldstein, FACHE, FLEXR Sports sponsored, Brittons Tri Force Member, 7x Ironman finisher (10:37:12 PR exact time on 2x IMs), 20x Half Ironman finisher (4:43 PR), 11x Marathon finisher (2:57 PR)