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Off-Season Marathon training
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Hi,

I'm planning to run my first full marathon beginning of march and I'm kind of looking for advice on how to plan this into my tri-training.
My last race is in 4 weeks, after which I'll be taking two weeks of recovery before I'll start full-on training again.
Last winter I spent an insane amount of hours building my base for this season and it really paid off so I hope to do the same this winter. Basicly I don't want the marathontraining to have an influence on my next season where I'll be competing mainly in 70.3's.

How I see it now is to work in a 4 week cycle where the 4th week will be recovery. The other weeks I'd do 4(?) Run, 3-4 Swim and 3 Bike trainings.
I guess I'd better take the bikerides easy and use those hours to get the blood flowing and let my legs recover from running. Not sure of 4 runs a week will be enough? But if I push a 5th run in there a 3th bikeride might be overkill?
Could I use a 140.6 training plan and just take the run trainings? Or would that be compromising run performance as I won't have to swim and bike? I'm aiming for a +-3h finish.

Any help to get me out of the dark here is appreciated!
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Re: Off-Season Marathon training [Fusion] [ In reply to ]
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I've done Boston twice and have done a full marathon training plan - was injured for the last race, but worked well for the 1st one. I did the Pfitz 18/70 plan and did one bike maintenance ride and two swims per week, then switched over to full tri training after Boston. I was able to maintain bike fitness (the one ride was usually hard intervals) and get back my swim after a month or so of 3-4x a week swimming.

If you want to do well in the marathon, really focus on that. If you already have a decent base, the swimming and biking should come back pretty quick, and you'll have a real strong run to back things up for tri season.

I'm actually planning on doing another marathon plan focused offseason, but not run a spring marathon. I felt that my run wasn't great this season and really want to focus on that going into next season and for the long term.

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Re: Off-Season Marathon training [natethomas] [ In reply to ]
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Mhh I just had a look at the plan, and 6 runs a week is just to much. I'll be spending a lot of time in the pool to perfect my technique and will be riding 3 times a week aswell.
I guess I'll have to make some compromises in the final month leading up to the race, but the rest of winter I'll have to balance.
I'll be riding two of the spring classics aswell so not spending time on the bike isn't an option.
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Re: Off-Season Marathon training [Fusion] [ In reply to ]
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It's going to be tough to do a real marathon training build if you have 6 other training sessions a week.
I would keep the quality sessions, so 1x intervals, 1x tempo and 1 long run, then do your cycling and swimming and fit in any extra easy runs you can.

You won't run the best marathon you are capable of, but you should be able to do well on that training.
I personally don't like cycling much in winter, so almost exclusively run. Come April I start up cycling again and try to just maintain my running. It's not ideal, but it fits better for me as someone who doesn't like running in the heat, or cycling in the cold!
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Re: Off-Season Marathon training [Fusion] [ In reply to ]
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Like other said, focus on the run and put other sports in maintenance mode.
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Re: Off-Season Marathon training [jdais] [ In reply to ]
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Alright, I'll try to focus on running and not over doing it during winter. Might leave me with to much fatigue before the start of the tri season.

Any good trainingplans out there?
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Re: Off-Season Marathon training [Fusion] [ In reply to ]
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You're approaching this like a typical triathlete instead of a runner. We've all done it. Myself included. If you want to run improve your running, you need to train like a runner. Don't worry about the swim and bike. Those will come back relatively quickly.

This year is going to be different for me. Partly because of years of burnout as well as a desire to finally run an open marathon and do it well, I'm almost exclusively a runner now. I haven't swam since June and I've probably only done a handful of rides since then. But, I've built up to 6-7 runs per week (one double day and one day off). I do take Saturday's off from running and do an easy ride of 1.5-2 hours if my family schedule permits.
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Re: Off-Season Marathon training [Fusion] [ In reply to ]
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Fusion wrote:
Alright, I'll try to focus on running and not over doing it during winter. Might leave me with to much fatigue before the start of the tri season.

Any good trainingplans out there?

That's good advice, bro. I tried to fit in tri training while training for a marathon and it's just not optimal. You might be able to get away with a few swims and bikes early on, but once you get into the meat of marathon training, you may just have to drop them all together.

I used Hal Higdon's Advanced Marathon Training Plan 1. I think the highest weekly volume was 55 miles, but I added a few miles here and there to get up into the low to mid 60s at peak training. For me, it was a good plan.
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Re: Off-Season Marathon training [Fusion] [ In reply to ]
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By the way I speak from a bit of experience on this topic. Most winters I say I want to improve the run but end up continuing with the usual mix of SBR. I did manage one successful winter where I was almost exclusively a runner. It's not surprising that I set my half marathon PR at the end of that winter.
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Re: Off-Season Marathon training [Fusion] [ In reply to ]
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"Might leave me with to much fatigue before the start of the tri season."

If this is your concern, you should skip the marathon.

I have done what Nate described above (ditch Bike/Swim for 3-4 months in the winter and followed the Pfitz 70 mpw plan, but racing a half marathon at the end as opposed to a full). My run improved tremendously. S/B returned to their previous levels (higher, actually) within 6 weeks of resuming tri-training, and the run gains remained even after dropping back to lower run volume (~35 mpw). One other mod I made to the Pfitz plan was that I capped the long runs at 16 miles.

The majority of triathletes have this belief that if they take a break from any of the discplines they will never be able to get back the fitness. The truth is that it is relatively easy to get back to ~95% of a fitness level you have previously attained. It is relatively hard to take your fitness level to new highs, esp if you are trying to do it in all 3 disciplines at once. (This assumes you don't go out and do something like get fat while taking a break.)

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Re: Off-Season Marathon training [Fusion] [ In reply to ]
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Fusion wrote:
Hi,

I'm planning to run my first full marathon beginning of march and I'm kind of looking for advice on how to plan this into my tri-training.
My last race is in 4 weeks, after which I'll be taking two weeks of recovery before I'll start full-on training again.
Last winter I spent an insane amount of hours building my base for this season and it really paid off so I hope to do the same this winter. Basicly I don't want the marathontraining to have an influence on my next season where I'll be competing mainly in 70.3's.

How I see it now is to work in a 4 week cycle where the 4th week will be recovery. The other weeks I'd do 4(?) Run, 3-4 Swim and 3 Bike trainings.
I guess I'd better take the bikerides easy and use those hours to get the blood flowing and let my legs recover from running. Not sure of 4 runs a week will be enough? But if I push a 5th run in there a 3th bikeride might be overkill?
Could I use a 140.6 training plan and just take the run trainings? Or would that be compromising run performance as I won't have to swim and bike? I'm aiming for a +-3h finish.

Any help to get me out of the dark here is appreciated!

3h finish... from what currently?

I'm assuming if you are asking and predicting a 3h finish, you are currently running a sub 1:30 half (in the 1:25 range) but have not really tested yourself beyond that. Otherwise you wouldn't need to ask.

Like others have said, you will need to stop thinking like a triathlete. 3h marathon finish is a fairly solid result and would qualify for Boston at any age, any gender. It's a fairly different thing to finish a marathon than to finish a marathon quickly. It would also be a fairly different ball game if you had done a few before.

I'm doing exactly that. Shooting for Boston at the Montreal marathon in 3 weeks. First marathon. I told myself at the start of the year I would dedicate my summer to it. I did IMMT70.3 in June, then switched to a 12 weeks plan focusing on the marathon. Early on, I could easily add a few rides and swims, but there comes a point where if you want to perform on the run, the rest has to go (or it has to be kept at very low intensity, low volume). Running 8h a week for 12 weeks leaves a mark. 120km in a week is a lot of pavement pounding (I recommend trails!).

You can train for a half marathon on 2-3 runs a week. You might complete a marathon on that. You will not BQ on it though (unless it was already built up in you).

I'm not shooting you down. You can do it. Just treat it the way it should be.
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Re: Off-Season Marathon training [Fusion] [ In reply to ]
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Try FIRST (Furman Institute of Running and Scientific Training). I followed this when preparing for Boston and starting to get ready for IM Florida. I found if I got the 3 key runs in I was good. If I got any additional runs in through the week it was a bonus. But only being obligated to 3 runs gave me lots of time for pool and bike.

I still use the training plan. With a 2 year old, I typically can squeeze in 3 runs... any additional training is a bonus. But I know if I get the 3 key runs in per week I will have fair/decent success on race day!
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