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Oceanside and the move to rolling starts.....
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Just my observations on the new rolling start format at Oceanside

This was my 6th Oceanside, a venue perfectly suited to AG starts. This year they moved to a rolling start with 5 minute increments for corrals starting at under 30.

IMO it made for a more crowded swim and bike. I've always been in a larger AG broken up into two waves. At the gun, the under 30s take off, the 1:00 swimmers fall back, and everyone sorta spreads out in the middle. Yes, you had to weave through prior waves but it's really not that big of a deal. I've started in wave 3 and wave 23, so have seen the worst of both ends. But every year was the same. By the time you got to the bike it was fairly well spread out.

Yesterday, the swim was as crowded, if not more crowded, than I've ever experienced there. All of the :30 swimmers - and there are a lot - just moved in one big pack. And there really is no incentive for a slower swimmer not to start in the sub 30 corral, I passed a TON of folks starting at the front of the 30-35 corral. Or people are just really bad at self seeding. But any chance to get on a course earlier is IMO an advantage.

Oh, and getting let into the water trying to "run" on that rubber mat was painful as hell.

Onto the bike, the bike course was very crowded pretty much to the north Camp P entrance, or more crowded than prior years (or they had more entrants).

I'm not racing for AG so I don't really care about that angle, I know that's an issue for many. Yes, there were a lot of waves and the wait could be a little long (23? 24 waves?), and I don't know how fast they got everyone in the water yesterday as opposed to last year, but I don't think that's a sufficient enough reason for the new format (as if that matters). Walking back to T1 to get the bike at 1 ish, didn't seem they were closing the course any earlier than last year either

WTC seems to have instituted a solution to a non-existent problem, and I hope they go back to the wave format (knowing they probably won't).
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Re: Oceanside and the move to rolling starts..... [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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This was my fourth Oceanside, and much to my surprise, I thought the rolling start was better (at least from my vantage point near the back). I am one of the slower swimmers (but not near the cutoff either) that properly seeds themselves. My view from the jetty was that "it appeared" that the earlier swimmers had a ton of room (and others around me agreed). I'm not discounting your in-water experience but it "looked" roomy out there in the 30 minute category.

I don't know why slower swimmers would get into the sub-30 waves, perhaps just ignorance or inflated expectations of their own abilities? I found it quite easy and less traffic near the back. I also liked the tradeoff of giving up the wave start and gaining the swim warm-up area. It was cold yesterday morning, and it was nice to have a warm-up in the warmer-than-air-temp water.

And agree, their seemed to be a lot more bike traffic this year than last, and a lot more carnage as well. I have wave-started near the front and back (Oceanside used to flip-flop the wave starts) and this year there just seemed to be more bike traffic overall. People just don't hold their bike lines.

And of course, the blatant drafters on Vandergrift, but let's not start that conversation...
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Re: Oceanside and the move to rolling starts..... [Macaroni Kid] [ In reply to ]
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I guess you only need a few people immediately around you to make it feel crowded :)

I didn't see any Vandegrift drafters, but saw some packs earlier on that weren't even trying to pretend like they weren't drafting
Last edited by: ChrisM: Apr 2, 17 18:16
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Re: Oceanside and the move to rolling starts..... [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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This was my 6th Oceanside. I started in the under 30 group. I enjoyed the swim more because I swam with more people of similar speed. I have to fight more people when I have to swim through slower swimmers in earlier waves. The bike course was no more crowded than when I started in an early wave. In years when I started in the last wave the bike course was crowded and I had a hard time getting around people.

My only complaint about the rolling start was that I didn't have the couple minutes after getting in to acclimate and pee in my wetsuit and I didn't want to warmup first, because I thought I was better off staying as warm as possible.
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Re: Oceanside and the move to rolling starts..... [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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Best I can remember, I think I was passed only 1x by race officials patrolling the course.
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Re: Oceanside and the move to rolling starts..... [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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I didn't mind it - but it was my first time so didn't know better. I was frozen by the time I hit the water.
There were very few women around me on the bike, and a couple of very blatant drafters. I had no problem calling them out.
Overall, a nice race experience and great atmosphere on the run.
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Re: Oceanside and the move to rolling starts..... [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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This was my first time at Oceanside but fourth IM 70.3 and I loved the self seeded start. I was in the 30-35 group and finished at 36 on the nose. It was great being with similar speed swimmers and made the experience much better IMO. I'll definitely add that it was very non congested in my group but I think I felt that way because I wasn't being passed much by FOPs in later waves and didn't have to deal with passing crazy slow people either (which typically have bad sighting to make that situation much worse!).

The bike course seemed great to me - not having typical car traffic was nice. I went super slow though as I haven't fully recovered mentally from a bad crash a few months back and couldn't bring myself to much past 20mph/, so given that I was in the back for the bike (3:27/ bike split :-/!) it seemed well spaced to me.
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Re: Oceanside and the move to rolling starts..... [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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This was my third year in a row at Oceanside, and I loved the rolling start. Last year I think I started in the 19th wave and then yesterday I was maybe the 30th amateur in the water and had my best swim yet. I just think it is one of those things that is going to depend on each person's own situation. For me, I would love to continue to see it but understand why others don't. That's a bummer it didn't go as smoothly for some.

As far as congestion on the bike, again, it all depends. For me this rolling start was great and felt just like a full Ironman start. I didn't see any drafting on the bike at all but also think I only saw the marshals twice.

Like with any changes WTC makes, the rolling start will be more easily accepted by some, but I have a feeling we will be seeing more of this in the future.
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Re: Oceanside and the move to rolling starts..... [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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I'm with you, Chris, and about 2/3 of my friends thought the same thing. The other 1/3 loved it. This was by far the most crowded O'side swim of my 6. My short story is that I seeded myself 2/3 back in 35-40, exactly where I finished. I didn't get passed once, but steadily passed people the entire time, so most people were over-optimistic. Like you, the bike was crowded for me up to at least that no-passing zone, in part because people were closely matched. A hint was that there were only two people walking the first hill. I didn't see draft packs this time either, but there was no way to stay out of draft zone zones for the first 28 miles.

As near as I can tell, the people in the very middle of the AG see more contact with a wave start and loved the rolling start- and the others of us either swim away or drop back from the AG; those of us who can swim away from the AG see way more contact in a rolling start. And wow, did I pass some goofy strokes. One guy hit me by throwing his arm sideways. As fast as he went by, I'd say he was 30 minutes overoptimistic.
Last edited by: Pacific John: Apr 2, 17 20:05
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Re: Oceanside and the move to rolling starts..... [Pacific John] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah I started at the front of the 30-35 and went 30:Xx. I ran into the back of the under 30 dreamers, to the same extent that I ran into folks in AG waves. If you are a 27-28 swimmer and 2:30-2:45 biker it's a great setup as you'll stay out front of the crowd for most all of it.

I noticed the same at IM Cozumel. Started at the front of the 1-1:10 group and went 1:02 and there were people around me the entire time, which is odd for a point to point swim

I didn't see a ton of drafting, only a couple groups and I've seen more. Saw marshalls twice that I remember.

I liked the swim warmup especially since it was nice and warm in the water. Now when did you ever think you'd hear that at Oceanside?

Overall , despite the cold morning the weather was pretty damn perfect. No excuses for not winning one's age group. :P

I still think the backside camp P is one of the best bike courses anywhere
Last edited by: ChrisM: Apr 2, 17 21:46
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Re: Oceanside and the move to rolling starts..... [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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Exactly five athletes lined up behind the 1:00-1:10 start sign. More than 50 have finisher times with an hour plus swim, and quite a few didn't finish or were over the cutoff and so show DNF. A lot of optimism at the back. And it took a lot longer to get all the athletes in than the staff had expected, and they did freak out a bit trying to get everyone out of the way when the pro men began to exit.
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Re: Oceanside and the move to rolling starts..... [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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I'm a 1:20 swimmer guy, and I have no idea why anyone would want to seed themselves faster than realistic. There is nothing fun about getting swam over and being in the way of faster swimmers. I was in the first wave at IMMT last year, and It was pure misery for the entire swim. I did IMAZ later that year, seeded myself correctly and had a very enjoyable swim.
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Re: Oceanside and the move to rolling starts..... [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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I've got my second rolling start coming up at Mallorca 70.3 and was reading this and also thinking of game theory and various scenarios.

I'm a 37-38 minute kind of swimmer. But adjust to your own pace.

Option 1) Go into as fast as group as possible to get some good drafting in. But you'll just be climbed all over by the fast guys, no fun at all. Speed differential will be too high. Don't be this person.

Option 2) Go up one group, under the assumption that you can draft and therefore go quicker. The problem here is they're all drafting each other too so they're probably going too fast, ending up with the same issue as option 1,

Option 3) Try and seed correctly. You should still get a draft boost, as everyone else gets that boost too.

Option 4) Drop a group, and assume that the draft from passing slower people will speed you up. This might work for the bike leg (in fact it does) but you'll be delayed more than helped

The main downfall to all this theory is that everyone must self seed correctly.

Certainly I'm going to try and seed correctly, and I'm certainly not going to miss all the fast guys climbing all over me.
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Re: Oceanside and the move to rolling starts..... [Dillon152] [ In reply to ]
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Dillon152 wrote:
I'm a 1:20 swimmer guy, and I have no idea why anyone would want to seed themselves faster than realistic. There is nothing fun about getting swam over and being in the way of faster swimmers. I was in the first wave at IMMT last year, and It was pure misery for the entire swim. I did IMAZ later that year, seeded myself correctly and had a very enjoyable swim.

Getting onto the bike course quicker so you avoid rising winds; getting onto the run course sooner so you avoid rising temps. Those are just two reasons I can think of seeding higher than you should. I passed several people swimming to the far outside of the buoys, going very slowly. They probably got out of the water a half hour or more than they otherwise would/should have
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Re: Oceanside and the move to rolling starts..... [chilled] [ In reply to ]
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All depends what your goals are. AG podium? Draft the fastest person you can, definitely move one group up. Drafting only really works if you are swimming behind someone slightly faster than you - you are using the same energy you'd use to go your pace, maybe even a little less, and going faster. Or is it to save as much energy as you can for bike and run? Draft off your own group, going the pace you would have with even less energy.

Honestly though drafting in a start like this is a total crapshoot. You have to first find, and then stay with, the person swimming the appropriate speed. Some rabbits sprint off the start with good intentions and die. With an AG start, you can sort of tell who intends on swimming what pace by where they start, and hang with them. TT or self seed start, people are all over the place.

I should not have been catching people by the first turn buoy with a start like this, and I caught a lot.
Last edited by: ChrisM: Apr 3, 17 10:34
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Re: Oceanside and the move to rolling starts..... [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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Oceanside #6 for me.
First I'm slow.... I had no issues, there were more bodies for me to deal with on the swim. Passed more people than previous years. Tried to seed myself to be near the front of the 45' folks and swam 44'.

Observation from my wife, much harder to see your swimmer when most males were wearing the light blue caps.

Her suggestion..... perhaps assign swim cap colors per age group & gender? (Like previous years) then continue with the rolling start.

On the bike I had fewer speedy fast guys an girls blow past me like other years so that felt safer.

Had a fun day and raced with my 26 year old son for the 3rd time at Oceanside. Always great to see him on the run course. It's always his 2nd lap and my first.

See you next year!

CJ
Completer not a Competer
2x IM
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Re: Oceanside and the move to rolling starts..... [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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Aim is just a pleasant race and a pb or two. I'd never ag podium. Too slow plus I'm in with the mid-life crises m40-45. So a fast pleasant swim to set me up nicely on the bike.
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Re: Oceanside and the move to rolling starts..... [chilled] [ In reply to ]
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chilled wrote:
Aim is just a pleasant race and a pb or two. I'd never ag podium. Too slow plus I'm in with the mid-life crises m40-45. So a fast pleasant swim to set me up nicely on the bike.

#3 it is then! :)
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Re: Oceanside and the move to rolling starts..... [GLindy] [ In reply to ]
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Second oside and third rolling start and worked well. I was in the 30-35 corral and go in early, had no issues weaving through people until the turn buoys. On the way back in ran into a few folks but that could have been because of the rising sun being I. The buoy line. 32 min for me and one of the easiest swims I've had in a 70.3.

Bike wasn't as crowded this year compared to last when I was in one of the last swim start waves. Lot less dodging the left riding blockers and folks who refuse to ride to the right. IM has to do away with the bike in chute though...too narrow and those little islands can make for some tight turns. Had a dude go down in front of me right at the dismount line. He took a tumble but got right up.
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Re: Oceanside and the move to rolling starts..... [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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3rd time at Oceanside (2010, 2014, 2017)....I liked the set up in 2014 the best. Wave Start, T1 was at the harbor but T2 was close to finish....Taking the shuttle back to T1 was not fun, especially since we brought bikes to Tri Bike Transport and then took the bus back. Having said that, still my favorite 70.3
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Re: Oceanside and the move to rolling starts..... [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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Rolling is nice but they needed a 25min and below corral.

Below 30min corral put me at the back of like 150+.Some of which were doing breaststroke and floating there at the first bouy.

Felt like I was in the 30th wave by the time i got in...

Had a 25min and below at Superfrog and that was awesome.
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Re: Oceanside and the move to rolling starts..... [Johnnyfever] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe, but since not a single age grouper went under 25......
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