This is a controversial topic as many wont agree with this.

With years of working with beginner to high level age group/pro athletes over the half and ironman distance, i have find some relatively easy factor/sign of who need supplement of electrolyte in racing and who does not.

Perhaps the science wont support it but my experience is many of my athletes will take 4-6 electrythe pills/hour during long distance races on top of sport drink on course. It s often the difference between a meltdown/cramp and walk on the run or a 3:05-3:20 marathon off the bike and a kona spot at the end.

in real world experience, i have seen drastic improvement with supplementing..... But that is not needed for everyone....

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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distance was half ironman. no times reported directly in that article (maybe there's a link in there somewhere), but that's a huge difference!

The placebo was NyQuill tablets

Never take an article at face value. They are often sensationalized versions to get clicks or only take snipits of the actual scientific journal publication. If you want to really know what the study's outcomes were, find the scientific publication and read it.

That said, you have to be careful with studies as well. Definitely take time to educate yourself. Read multiple studies on the same topic. For a generic example, you will find one study that says you should eat xxx amount of animal products a day because they are complete protein sources. Another study will directly contradict that study saying that the xxx amount will cause cancer. Or the classic, you should drink coffee, oh wait no you shouldn't, maybe you should?

The takeaway, science is constantly evolving. One study is not the end all be all. What we think we know today, will be turned on its head tomorrow.

Try to eat healthy, be active, rest and recover. Figure out what works for you in everyday life and in your training and racing.

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"Just don�t abandon everything you�ve ever learned because of something someone said on the internet." - Eric McGinnis

So true Scott, and every body is different. That said, my n+1 differs completely with Noakes, and this study is more my experience.

My experience coincides with yours jonnyo. Thanks for the response, and yes, the Noakes advocates will not care for this one.

What sport drink are your athletes drinking that requires the added pills?

For me, I cramped on the mid-section of the run last year and haven't really figured out why. I bounced back and ran well the second half but not smoothly. I was taking Infinite on the bike and EFS bottles on the run. No pills. And missed Kona by 8 minutes.

pretty much any sport drink on the market wont have ''enough'' if the person is really dependent on high dose of electrolyte. I like athletes to be able to use what is on course in term of sport drink. i also make sure they can digest many brand of drinks. Most of the time, we get around to teach them this and not be ''picky'' about the brand.

I do have them learn to use effectively maltodextrin as perhaps the best source of calories during longer events. Infinit is basiclly maltodextrin with a mix of other sugar and electrolythe. But it dosnt make a good concentrated solution like plain maltodextrin those. it s a good product but plain maltodextrin allow you to play with ratio and concentration by youself in training on a daily basis so you know exactly what your body like and respond to....

as for you, it comes down to looking at your training and see if your performance was inline with your training or if it was nurtition/pacing that was the issue. If you under performe compare to training...then yes, a deeper look into your fueling/pacing is needed.

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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What is interesting is the study only says that the athletes finished faster, not that it prevented cramps. Salt hasn't been shown to either prevent cramps or lessen the duration of cramps. As a matter of fact, there is no definitive link between any electrolyte and cramping and science doesn't even really know what cramping is in the first place. We do know that electrolyte supplementation does increase performance overall. The one thing that has been shown to definitively shorten cramps is pickle juice, so you might give that a shot.

http://runnersconnect.net/running-nutrition-articles/pickle-juice-muscle-cramps/

That's where I get "confused" or maybe not. My long runs in training were done at 8/mile and I ran 8/mile average. So, yeah, I ran what I trained but I thought I would have ran 10-15 minutes faster since my long training miles were done painfully slow just to get in the time.

For all the backseats coaches, it seems obvious, I did what I trained but it sure felt like I left something on the table race day.

Do you know what we call that? "anecdata" :-)

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That's what I said, but funny how it coincides with so many others. Too much coincidence that in my 32 years in tri, taking a salt (electrolyte) tablet completely takes the cramping away within a minute or two. Science will eventually catch up to real world, as is often the case.

For all the backseats coaches, it seems obvious, I did what I trained but it sure felt like I left something on the table race day.

Yes, you left your magical vitamin coffee on the table

My N=1 datapoint is so vastly different from Noakes that I think it is borderline medical quackery if not downright dangerous to tell people that they should not supplement in hot long course events. Yes, everyone is different and people have to find out what works for them, and this study is consistent with my own physiological response. However, I didn't need the study to confirm what I thought about the anti-salt docs.

However, for personal use, it can be more valuable than scientifically rigorous conclusion based on the mean of some statistic, when there is huge variance amongst the population.

That's true in terms of statistical significance across an entire study population. However several studies have noted that members of the study population, particularly very heavy sweaters, may benefit.

Boarderline? You're way too kind.

who the hell is a noakes advocate anymore? *bewildered face*

Am and always have been a massive pusher of salt.

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
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I'm a smart person, and yet.....

I'll never forget that time, when I was having some weird general and systemic health issues, and my cardiologist told me I need to go on 10,000mg a day of sodium.

10K? are you crazy doc? Sodium is BAD for you. 2k is recommended, but zero is better, right? Right?!?!?!?

No, salt is good, and you need 10k a day.

But my heart.

Yes your heart.

Like, today?

No, like until further notice.

Like 3 months later I started, *finally*, to get high blood pressure and a little bloated.

OK, you can stop now. Back to a normal diet, but add salt to taste.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
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What about the osmolality of the liquid in your stomach? I thought there was some optimum range where too much salt actually pulled it out of your bloodstream and too little did not replenish fast enough. Also, too high an osmolality caused stomach cramping and potentially vomiting?

I'm starting to think that there is a huge variance amongst the human population in terms of sodium use and hydration. Such a huge variance that it's difficult to generalize. And most studies attempt to generalize, kind of pretending that humans exist on a tight normal distribution.

Just a few weeks ago while defending a stage race lead, I was attacked 60 miles into a hot road race and started to cramp. Downed 8 SaltStick tabs with a bottle of water. 20 minutes later the cramps were gone. Finished very strong with the same time as the winner.

The increase in performance and cessation of cramping could have been placebo. n=1. Though it's been a very consistent placebo for me if that's the case.

But it's an absolute fact that I can take a shit-ton of salt all at once and not have any ill effect. Either on stomach discomfort of performance loss.

But I have no doubt that other people may be really sensitive to those things, and may need to tune their approach.

There's a danger to reading about the mean of a population in a study then making *personal* decisions on the mean. That's why I ribbed tigerchik above on poo-pooing n=1. When you're the '1', n=1 is everything.

So I always advise experimentation. I never advise people to take 8-10 salt caps on race day without spending a lot of time gradually dialling in an approach.

I'm starting to think that there is a huge variance amongst the human population in terms of sodium use and hydration. Such a huge variance that it's difficult to generalize. And most studies attempt to generalize, kind of pretending that humans exist on a tight normal distribution. //


Ahhhh grasshopper, you are making good progress. For about 30 years now i have been preaching this exact sentiment, hopefully at some point the masses will get that the masses are not one distinct group, but many, many different kinds of athlete machines..

Some information taken from the original paper:

26 male matched participants assigned to 2 groups, but 5 in each group DNF. According to the power analysis done by the authors, the experiment is under-powered. Previous pb was on average 301 minutes.
The Salt group ingested 2580 mg of sodium (113 mmol), 3979 mg of chloride (112 mmol), 756 mg of potassium(19.3 mmol), and 132 mg of magnesium (5.4 mmol). Important to note the combination as conclusions cannot distinguish between the effects of these electrolytes. The placebo group ingested cellulose. During the race the athletes ingested energy and water ad libitum. "Dry temperature during the event was 22.5 � 2.7 �C (18.8�26.6 �C) with a relative humidity of 36.8 � 8.3% (32�45%)". I couldn't find out in which race the experiment was conducted.

Key results:
Discipline, Placebo (average, SD), Salt (average, SD), probability
Swimming velocity (m/s) 0.75 � 0.15 0.80 � 0.08 p = 0.14
Cycling velocity (m/s) 7.74 � 0.81 8.26 � 0.67 p = 0.04
Running velocity (m/s) 3.08 � 0.43 3.37 � 0.50 p = 0.06
Total duration: 333 � 40 min vs 307 � 32 min; P = 0.04

Same rate of sweat loss and sweat electrolyte losses; however "the amount of rehydration was ∼ 0.4 � 0.4 L higher in the salt group than the control group (P = 0.05)", leading to significantly different weight loss. Similar level of energy ingestion and loss of Sodium, Chloride, Potassium and magnesium, but of course the Salt group ingested more of the same elements.

In the discussion the authors note the "increased blood osmolality in the salt group was related to a 26 � 10% rise in fluid intake, despite all participants drinking ad libitum during the race. This osmotic stimulus mediated by the ingestion of salt during exercise was likely responsible for the increased fluid intake in the salt group... In fact, the greater fluid intake during exercise may be one of the main causes for their creased performance found in this investigation "

In spite of a slightly under-powered experiment, the results seem to show a difference. However the interpretation is less clear. a) it is not possible to identify which electrolyte had what effect (if any); b) the difference in hydration may well be the origin of the difference, albeit aided by the ingestion of electrolytes.
Swimming velocity (m/s) 0.75 � 0.15 0.80 � 0.08 = 0.14
Cycling velocity (m/s) 7.74 � 0.81 8.26 � 0.67 = 0.04
Running velocity (m/s) 3.08 � 0.43 3.37 � 0.50 = 0.06

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Francois-Xavier Li @FrancoisLi
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To steal a quote: "you are not a beautiful and unique snowflake."

Whilst the there are some exceptionally small variations between indiciduals we all basically the same.