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New Race In Niagara Falls Canada

 

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Fleck

Apr 30, 13 12:57

Post #1 of 72 (4953 views)
New Race In Niagara Falls Canada Quote | Reply

Last week I had the opportunity to go down to Niagara Falls to check out the race venue for a new race that will be starting up in September 2014.

The race, a 1/2 iron distance is being produced by, MultiSport Canada who put on the biggest and best triathlon series in Canada with a series of events throughout Southern Ontario.

See more here:

http://niagarafallstriathlon.com/

Swim in the Welland Canal (like a big pool), mostly flat bike, then an awesome 2-lap run that takes in the best sites and scenery right in Niagara Falls, Canada. You'll pass right by the brink of the Falls and if the wind is blowing the right way, you'll get a free cooling mist directly from the Falls!

I've been to lots of races, race sites, and venues over the years and this one is really good.

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

(This post was edited by Fleck on Apr 30, 13 12:59)


blitzkrieg

Apr 30, 13 13:06

Post #2 of 72 (4936 views)
Re: New Race In Niagara Falls Canada [Fleck] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

MSC/John:

This is great news for everyone!

But for my selfish reasons: ...please please have a real half-iron duathlon option (or at least a bike-run option...)! :D

.

formerly parichitb.
Duathlete by choice?
http://parigari.blogspot.ca/
http://www.3sixty5cycling.com/


devashish_paul

Apr 30, 13 13:14

Post #3 of 72 (4912 views)
Re: New Race In Niagara Falls Canada [Fleck] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Steve....question to you and John.....why the desire for a "flat and fast" course when you are that close to the Niagara escarpment. Seems like there is an opportunity to give the course some character and additional challenge beyond a flat and fast draft fest to T2. I can see where you have no terrain to select from that you may need to go flat, but if other terrain is available, seems like a lost opportunity? Or perhaps there is no access to good climbing on the bike?

cervelo.com (P3) |infinitnutrition.ca | bushtukah.com
Whiteface Hill Climb + Epicman Lake Placid 3k/180k/21k June 5/6 2014, Epicman Tremblant 10k/260k/42.2k 11-13 July 2014


blitzkrieg

Apr 30, 13 13:35

Post #4 of 72 (4879 views)
Re: New Race In Niagara Falls Canada [devashish_paul] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I think that it may be in part due to:

1.) Half the bike course they suggested is part of the Welland Half anyway, where they have the support of the community and easier to get permits/costs in line with their budgets.
2.) Allure factor of having a point to point T2 so that most of the bike and nearly all the run part is next to Niagara Falls, which makes it a big draw for everyone. (while maintaining 1.))
3.) I suspect a lot more athletes sign up when they see a flat and fast PR course, just because it sells. A harder bike is a better judge of ability + reducing drafting, but mostly people sign up just to be able to compete and finish.

..but I may be just talking out of my ass.

.

formerly parichitb.
Duathlete by choice?
http://parigari.blogspot.ca/
http://www.3sixty5cycling.com/


devashish_paul

Apr 30, 13 14:02

Post #5 of 72 (4848 views)
Re: New Race In Niagara Falls Canada [blitzkrieg] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

blitzkrieg wrote:
I think that it may be in part due to:

1.) Half the bike course they suggested is part of the Welland Half anyway, where they have the support of the community and easier to get permits/costs in line with their budgets.
2.) Allure factor of having a point to point T2 so that most of the bike and nearly all the run part is next to Niagara Falls, which makes it a big draw for everyone. (while maintaining 1.))
3.) I suspect a lot more athletes sign up when they see a flat and fast PR course, just because it sells. A harder bike is a better judge of ability + reducing drafting, but mostly people sign up just to be able to compete and finish.

..but I may be just talking out of my ass.

.

In general the part in bold is what running race directors market... "flat and fast". That is great for a running race, but in general, it becomes problematic in a triathlon. I can see having no other choice if your event is Eagleman, or IM Florida, but ideally, if some rollers and hills are there, it makes the TRIATHLON a better overall event. We could debate that hard courses scare athletes, away, but then how do we explain sellouts at Wildflower?

I hope it had more to do with permits than marketing a draft fest to athletes.

cervelo.com (P3) |infinitnutrition.ca | bushtukah.com
Whiteface Hill Climb + Epicman Lake Placid 3k/180k/21k June 5/6 2014, Epicman Tremblant 10k/260k/42.2k 11-13 July 2014


IKnowEverything

Apr 30, 13 15:19

Post #6 of 72 (4812 views)
Re: New Race In Niagara Falls Canada [Fleck] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Looks to me like they could have made the course a LOT better if they extended it down Netherby and then had you finish the last few km on the Niagara Parkway - I used to love riding out there as a kid.


rbuike

Apr 30, 13 17:45

Post #7 of 72 (4740 views)
Re: New Race In Niagara Falls Canada [Fleck] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I love the idea of another Ontario triathlon and there is some appeal here but I agree with everyone else. The bike could easily be more challenging and the point to point nature is not very friendly to athletes or spectators no matter how well you bus them around. The volunteers and transportation at Ironman Poconos 70.3 the last few years was great but it was still difficult for spectators to get around and getting all that gear and/or people back to their vehicles in Welland (or get people from Niagara Falls to Welland for the start) will be a challenge.

That said the run/finish will be spectacular, it was/is a great finish to the Conquer Cancer ride. Enough to forgive the other issues and there is lots for spectators to do there while they wait for their athletes to get to the run.

Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | ICEdot | X-1 Audio
http://www.goinglong.ca


tridork

Apr 30, 13 18:14

Post #8 of 72 (4711 views)
Re: New Race In Niagara Falls Canada [Fleck] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I lived in Ontario for years. For some reason there have always been awesome races there.

Flat fast courses do attract people, but the Rotorua 1/2 IM here in New Zealand is killer tough, and they still get about 1000 entrants. The only part without monster hills is the swim :-)

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"


kny

Apr 30, 13 18:19

Post #9 of 72 (4701 views)
Re: New Race In Niagara Falls Canada [Fleck] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Clearly they're new at this, what with naming their event "Half Iron" and all. That or they have lawyers and are ready for a fight.


Jamaican

Apr 30, 13 18:22

Post #10 of 72 (4697 views)
Re: New Race In Niagara Falls Canada [kny] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

kny wrote:
Clearly they're new at this

Yup, John Salt is a total noob

/pink


FS: Shoes, Stems, Brakes. Free Shipping In North America


kny

Apr 30, 13 18:25

Post #11 of 72 (4690 views)
Re: New Race In Niagara Falls Canada [Jamaican] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Well, let's see whether it's name remains "Niagara Falls Half Iron" next September.


Jamaican

Apr 30, 13 18:28

Post #12 of 72 (4683 views)
Re: New Race In Niagara Falls Canada [kny] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Who knows. Maybe they'll have it as the Niagara Half Iron Distance like Welland: http://www.msctriathlon.com/...etail.cfm?raceID=469


FS: Shoes, Stems, Brakes. Free Shipping In North America


kny

Apr 30, 13 18:29

Post #13 of 72 (4678 views)
Re: New Race In Niagara Falls Canada [Jamaican] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

You win.


Nick Mallett

Apr 30, 13 18:30

Post #14 of 72 (4671 views)
Re: New Race In Niagara Falls Canada [tridork] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

tridork wrote:
I lived in Ontario for years. For some reason there have always been awesome races there.

Flat fast courses do attract people, but the Rotorua 1/2 IM here in New Zealand is killer tough, and they still get about 1000 entrants. The only part without monster hills is the swim :-)

------

That is because people down under aren't girlie-men...;-)

----


Fleck

May 1, 13 5:08

Post #15 of 72 (4501 views)
Re: New Race In Niagara Falls Canada [devashish_paul] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Dev,

A couple of things:

I can see having no other choice if your event is Eagleman, or IM Florida, but ideally, if some rollers and hills are there, it makes the TRIATHLON a better overall event.

I would guess that the complicated nature of coming up with a course, to get all the elements, that need to be there, will mean that, to get it just right for that location you may need to make some compromises, or you have to work with what you have. Every course does not have to be epically challenging. If that is a key criteria for you or another athlete - the need to have a challenging bike course - then, you have choices of other races. That's the great thing right now - there is lot's of choice out there with events.

You know that a 6-hour race, no matter what the courses look like, is pretty darn challenging for many. Why can't it be left there?

I hope it had more to do with permits than marketing a draft fest to athletes.

"Draft fest"? I suspect that with the race numbers that this race will have (around 700) and wave starts, that this will be minimal.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog


John Salt

May 1, 13 5:18

Post #16 of 72 (4489 views)
Re: New Race In Niagara Falls Canada [blitzkrieg] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Hey Blitzkrieg, glad you think it is great news, thanks. Actually we have built in a Bike/Run option. If we could have added a Du we would have but the logistics will not allow it. Hope we see you there.


John Salt, MultiSport Canada Triathlon Series
http://www.multisportcanada.com / http://www.niagarafallstriathlon.com
"Discipline Is What You Do When No One Is Watching You"


John Salt

May 1, 13 5:31

Post #17 of 72 (4477 views)
Re: New Race In Niagara Falls Canada [devashish_paul] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Dev, why do you assume there is a "desire" on our part for a flat and fast course? Over the years we have had several very challenging bike courses for a half because we prefer to make it a tougher bike and it does break up the packs. If we could have done that for this race we would have. The reality is in order to end in the Falls we are limited as to where we can go. Unfortunately we cannot get to the higher elevations and to the Falls with a 90km route. Your later comment that perhaps there is no access is accurate. As Fleck just pointed out we will have waves to keep things safe at this race and to try and separate the bikes right from the start.

This is the only race that has been allowed to have a run course which goes by the Falls TWICE. All other races end just before the Falls. We have been working on this race for three years and the goal was to have the best bike course possible in order to get athletes to what we believe ill be an epic (and not flat) run course. I hope you join us on race day.


John Salt, MultiSport Canada Triathlon Series
http://www.multisportcanada.com / http://www.niagarafallstriathlon.com
"Discipline Is What You Do When No One Is Watching You"


John Salt

May 1, 13 5:51

Post #18 of 72 (4459 views)
Re: New Race In Niagara Falls Canada [IKnowEverything] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Matt, I would love to take the bike along Netherby to the Parkway. I don't know when you were a kid but the present day vehicular traffic flow will not allow for that to be a safe option. Netherby is a busy road these days and as you get closer to the Parkway it goes by and crosses over an interchange from the QEW. I would not put our athlete/customers in that situation. I even doubt we could get authorization from the MTO and OPP. Sorry but it is a reality of the situation.


John Salt, MultiSport Canada Triathlon Series
http://www.multisportcanada.com / http://www.niagarafallstriathlon.com
"Discipline Is What You Do When No One Is Watching You"


John Salt

May 1, 13 6:02

Post #19 of 72 (4445 views)
Re: New Race In Niagara Falls Canada [rbuike] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Rodney, for this race if athletes stay in Niagara Falls, with plenty of hotels at various price points, they can be shuttled to the race start in the morning, complete the race and be within 800m of the athlete parking or within walking distance to their hotel. They will also have the option of staying in Welland. The Best Western is 1km from the swim start. I know a point to point is a challenge for some athletes to get their mind around. All I can say is we have successfully produced two point to point long course races in Collingwood a few years back. The athlete reaction post-race was extremely positive and I can tell you we did not have one complaint. We are committed to making the point to point seamless and smooth.

We will also have spectator "hot spots" with directions so that they can get to see all of the race at key locations, not interfere with or impede the race and get back to the finish. Kingsbridge Park is a huge and beautiful park and will be a great place for friends and family to watch the Finish.


John Salt, MultiSport Canada Triathlon Series
http://www.multisportcanada.com / http://www.niagarafallstriathlon.com
"Discipline Is What You Do When No One Is Watching You"

(This post was edited by John Salt on May 1, 13 6:04)


rbuike

May 1, 13 6:07

Post #20 of 72 (4431 views)
Re: New Race In Niagara Falls Canada [John Salt] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Thanks for the response John. Perhaps my Poconos experience wasn't great but it is a challenge to move that many people around. It is a huge organizational effort and I wish you the best of luck. I fully support any addition to the Ontario triathlon series.

Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | ICEdot | X-1 Audio
http://www.goinglong.ca


johnnybefit

May 1, 13 7:05

Post #21 of 72 (4396 views)
Re: New Race In Niagara Falls Canada [Fleck] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I think this sounds great despite the naysayers thus far. Share more details as you get them please.


kkoole

May 1, 13 8:22

Post #22 of 72 (4351 views)
Re: New Race In Niagara Falls Canada [devashish_paul] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

devashish_paul wrote:
Steve....question to you and John.....why the desire for a "flat and fast" course when you are that close to the Niagara escarpment. Seems like there is an opportunity to give the course some character and additional challenge beyond a flat and fast draft fest to T2. I can see where you have no terrain to select from that you may need to go flat, but if other terrain is available, seems like a lost opportunity? Or perhaps there is no access to good climbing on the bike?

Dev- I get your point, but it's worth mentioning that this course is not a compromise for "flat and fast". Feeder Road is perfect for triathlon- shaded, smooth, low traffic and scenic.

Second, flat and fast is somewhat of a novelty in this area. The majority of people in the Niagara/Welland races will be local, and I can't think of another HIM or longer with such a flat course. We have a lot of (semi) hilly race options, this is a nice alternative.


devashish_paul

May 1, 13 9:03

Post #23 of 72 (4327 views)
Re: New Race In Niagara Falls Canada [kkoole] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Thanks. I guess that was the angle I was coming from. Given that the area is generally challenging, as an outsider, you'd expect to go there to have a course that uses the topography. As I said, I am OK with run races being marketed as flat and fast. I'm not totally sold (not just for me, but for many participants) that the majority actually want a purely flat course for triathlon. Then again, numbers talk....IMFlorida and IM Arizona instantly sell out, whereas St. George never did. As you mentioned of the bulk of the participants are local, and if this is a novelty in terms of the only course that could be this flat, then I can see the point.

To John, I applaud you for all your contributions over time. My main angle was that as an outsider, making the trip would be worthwhile if it offered some unique usage of the local topography (escarpment). It's not really interesting for many of us to travel for a pancake flat course (the same reason I never have done Eagleman).

We have the Esprit with its unique F1 track and Canadian looping around the Canal and in the shadow of Parliament to fill the flat course offering up here. I appreciate that in that region these options are not there. Out of all of these, fall events, I like the course at Muskoka the best (nothing to do with it being Mdot....just worth the travel given the assurance that the race will not be a draft fest).

Anyway, not hiding that I'm a bit averse to the marketing of any triathlon as flat and fast. In today's market driven by WTC congested courses, I see this as code word for a a lot of drafting. Many athletes actually want to sign up for draft fests because they want PB's.

I hope you have great wave spacing and limit the size of waves and have good marshaling. The guys in Galveston Texas do a great job at that, and Danny McCann actually does a good job on this in Montreal. The Canadian is never big in numbers anyway and we can ride clean races there too. So it is possible for sure.

cervelo.com (P3) |infinitnutrition.ca | bushtukah.com
Whiteface Hill Climb + Epicman Lake Placid 3k/180k/21k June 5/6 2014, Epicman Tremblant 10k/260k/42.2k 11-13 July 2014


devashish_paul

May 1, 13 9:11

Post #24 of 72 (4314 views)
Re: New Race In Niagara Falls Canada [John Salt] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

John Salt wrote:
Dev, why do you assume there is a "desire" on our part for a flat and fast course? Over the years we have had several very challenging bike courses for a half because we prefer to make it a tougher bike and it does break up the packs. If we could have done that for this race we would have. The reality is in order to end in the Falls we are limited as to where we can go. Unfortunately we cannot get to the higher elevations and to the Falls with a 90km route. Your later comment that perhaps there is no access is accurate. As Fleck just pointed out we will have waves to keep things safe at this race and to try and separate the bikes right from the start.

This is the only race that has been allowed to have a run course which goes by the Falls TWICE. All other races end just before the Falls. We have been working on this race for three years and the goal was to have the best bike course possible in order to get athletes to what we believe ill be an epic (and not flat) run course. I hope you join us on race day.

John, also I wanted to thank you for being creative to take full advantage of the featuring the run course by the falls. That will certainly be interesting and would get many people to travel over for it. I definitely agree that it will be one of the most iconic races in Canada.....why not just go with "most iconic races in the World" vs. "fastest and most iconic races in Canada". I don't think you need "fastest" as part of the marketing. The Falls are the main feature as they should be. This is what differentiates your race. Any event can be fast.

Sep 21 could work. It just depends on work travel etc.

Dev

cervelo.com (P3) |infinitnutrition.ca | bushtukah.com
Whiteface Hill Climb + Epicman Lake Placid 3k/180k/21k June 5/6 2014, Epicman Tremblant 10k/260k/42.2k 11-13 July 2014


markea

May 1, 13 9:26

Post #25 of 72 (4299 views)
Re: New Race In Niagara Falls Canada [Fleck] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I was disappointed to read that the swim was not in the shipping canal. THAT would have been exciting.

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