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New Power meter(s) depression.
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Last year I wrote on this forum about a new Power2Max meter that was reading low, or so it seemed. My times on my TT bike were up, but my power was down. I was avg. 36-37kmh on training rides with power 15-20watts lower than the year before.

The biggest difference between 2016 and 2017 was the switch from my trusty powertap sl+ to a Power2max for the TT bike. I figured the Power2Max was reading low as al of my timing data on long climbs etc. on the road bike with the powertap sl+ seemed to suggest those numbers were accurate, especially compared to others I rode with or others on Strava.

Enter a new bike and a new powertap GS hub. Well, it looks like the Power2max was the more accurate meter, or at least the GS hub reflects numbers closer to the Power2max.

But now I am depressed and grieving the loss of 20-25 watts. I had a 1hour best power of 286 last year, and I had a major goal of reaching 300watts this year. But now it looks like my true FTP was somewhere around 260-70 and 300 is way to far out of reach.

I understand these numbers do not actually matter, overall I was the fastest I have ever been on my TT bike last year, and will hopefully be faster this year. So this post is kind of tongue in cheek. But man, 300 watt FTP was going to feel nice...
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Re: New Power meter(s) depression. [Triagain3] [ In reply to ]
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I feel your pain. I am recently in nearly the same situation when I updated the firmware on my Kickr. My true FTP dropped about 15 watts (276-> 261). I too had a goal of 300 watts and this will likely be out of reach now for 2017.
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Re: New Power meter(s) depression. [Triagain3] [ In reply to ]
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I have a friend in a similar situation. His older PT shows him 15-20w ahead of my G3. I outweigh him by about 15lbs when I'm in shape. He can only drop me on the steepest of hills. I drop him on the flats. Yep, his PM is off.

Congrats on getting faster. All the other numbers are just bench-racing.
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Re: New Power meter(s) depression. [holograham] [ In reply to ]
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holograham wrote:
I feel your pain. I am recently in nearly the same situation when I updated the firmware on my Kickr. My true FTP dropped about 15 watts (276-> 261). I too had a goal of 300 watts and this will likely be out of reach now for 2017.

Lol, same here! Updated my kickr firmware for 2017 and my ftp is lower. :(
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Re: New Power meter(s) depression. [Triagain3] [ In reply to ]
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you cant mourn the loss of something you never really had, can you? :)

"as long as it is consistent".............meme

edit: imagine how i felt when i quickly learned to include zeros in AP :0
Last edited by: jeffp: Mar 27, 17 8:17
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Re: New Power meter(s) depression. [Triagain3] [ In reply to ]
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Triagain3 wrote:
Last year I wrote on this forum about a new Power2Max meter that was reading low, or so it seemed. My times on my TT bike were up, but my power was down. I was avg. 36-37kmh on training rides with power 15-20watts lower than the year before.

The biggest difference between 2016 and 2017 was the switch from my trusty powertap sl+ to a Power2max for the TT bike. I figured the Power2Max was reading low as al of my timing data on long climbs etc. on the road bike with the powertap sl+ seemed to suggest those numbers were accurate, especially compared to others I rode with or others on Strava.

Enter a new bike and a new powertap GS hub. Well, it looks like the Power2max was the more accurate meter, or at least the GS hub reflects numbers closer to the Power2max.

But now I am depressed and grieving the loss of 20-25 watts. I had a 1hour best power of 286 last year, and I had a major goal of reaching 300watts this year. But now it looks like my true FTP was somewhere around 260-70 and 300 is way to far out of reach.

I understand these numbers do not actually matter, overall I was the fastest I have ever been on my TT bike last year, and will hopefully be faster this year. So this post is kind of tongue in cheek. But man, 300 watt FTP was going to feel nice...

You know it's possible to statically check which PT is reading correctly, right?

I'm not familiar enough with P2max to know if it allows static checks...

There's no reason you should have not known earlier. Just sayin'...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: New Power meter(s) depression. [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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that's for the paranoid types :)

fyi....i dropped my hanging weight on my tile floor. that sucked
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Re: New Power meter(s) depression. [Triagain3] [ In reply to ]
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My first powertap hub 7 years ago was my first endeavor into power based training.

I worked my ass off, and my FTP was huge. 370 watts.

But then i went to my first olympic race, hit my numbers, and based on bestbikesplit.com, I should of been the top cyclist in the event (of course i wasnt)

Long story short, my next power meter was a quarq. Able to calibrate with their app and hanging weights

FTP went from 370 down to 285. Bestbikesplit.com started predicting my races within 10 seconds to the quarq power.

Powertap hub remains consistently 85 watts high when i ride my road bike. Still usable, i just adjust my numbers accordingly.

But a real shock to the system when that happened.

How was i supposed to know? nothing to compare against.... until the quarq.
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Re: New Power meter(s) depression. [Triagain3] [ In reply to ]
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And this is why precision AND accuracy matter. There's this "consistency" mantra that a lot of folks are on and mostly because they don't want to spend money on a real power meter and just want a silly stages unit or a single sided pm.

Use this as motivation to keep improving. You'll get there.

blog
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Re: New Power meter(s) depression. [randomtriguy] [ In reply to ]
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randomtriguy wrote:
My first powertap hub 7 years ago was my first endeavor into power based training.

I worked my ass off, and my FTP was huge. 370 watts.

But then i went to my first olympic race, hit my numbers, and based on bestbikesplit.com, I should of been the top cyclist in the event (of course i wasnt)

Long story short, my next power meter was a quarq. Able to calibrate with their app and hanging weights

FTP went from 370 down to 285. Bestbikesplit.com started predicting my races within 10 seconds to the quarq power.

Powertap hub remains consistently 85 watts high when i ride my road bike. Still usable, i just adjust my numbers accordingly.

But a real shock to the system when that happened.

How was i supposed to know? nothing to compare against.... until the quarq.

Incorrect. You have always been able to statically check a PT hub. Look up "Powertap stomp test".

C'mon people...NO powermeter should be put into service without at least a static torque check...and if the PM doesn't allow for that, you might want to reconsider the use of it.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: New Power meter(s) depression. [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah - I wasnt aware of it at the time -- Quarq introduced me to Qalvin and the process for calibrating and adjusting slope.

As someone new to power meters in 2010, I had no idea anything needed to be done -- powertap hub was often plugged as a "it just works" device

Looking back though -- absolutely
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Re: New Power meter(s) depression. [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Is there a way to calibrate a P1 Pedal to confirm accuracy?
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Re: New Power meter(s) depression. [Triagain3] [ In reply to ]
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Power number obsession is huge on this site.

300 watts is totally unimportant. Instead, what IS important is your power to weight ratio. For example, watts per kg body weight. (Actually watts per unit of drag is more important, but watts/kilo is a very good substitute.)

If you like to chase numbers, create a useful goal like, say, 4.5 watts per kilo of bodyweight ... or something like that appropriate for your body size.

And congrats on doing well in races, because I think that is what actually matters ...

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook

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Last edited by: DarkSpeedWorks: Mar 28, 17 8:31
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Re: New Power meter(s) depression. [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Power number obsession is huge on this site.

300 watts is totally unimportant. Instead, what IS important is your power to weight ratio. For example, watts per kg body weight. (Actually watts per unit of drag is more important, but watts/kilo is a very good substitute.)

If you like to chase numbers, create a useful goal like, say, 4.5 watts per kilo of bodyweight ... or something like that appropriate for your bodysize.

And congrats on doing well in races !
Because I think that is what actually matters ...
That is a good metric for pure climbing but not at all when we're talking flatter roads including those with rollers. I know many people with better W/kg than myself which I could easily drop on the flats or even short, steep hills because my absolute power is higher.
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Re: New Power meter(s) depression. [Benv] [ In reply to ]
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Benv wrote:
That is a good metric for pure climbing but not at all when we're talking flatter roads including those with rollers. I know many people with better W/kg than myself which I could easily drop on the flats or even short, steep hills because my absolute power is higher.

Not sure how big you are, but I would wager a guess that most of the other people who have better watts/kg but who you can drop are also not as well set up aerodynamically (body and bike) as you are.

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook

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Re: New Power meter(s) depression. [holograham] [ In reply to ]
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holograham wrote:
Is there a way to calibrate a P1 Pedal to confirm accuracy?

I don't know...but it would be something to look into before considering them...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: New Power meter(s) depression. [Triagain3] [ In reply to ]
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Ah yes. Why is it that recalibrating a power meter ALWAYS leads to lower numbers? :D
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Re: New Power meter(s) depression. [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
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SBRcoffee wrote:
holograham wrote:
I feel your pain. I am recently in nearly the same situation when I updated the firmware on my Kickr. My true FTP dropped about 15 watts (276-> 261). I too had a goal of 300 watts and this will likely be out of reach now for 2017.


Lol, same here! Updated my kickr firmware for 2017 and my ftp is lower. :(

I love having a proper power meter on my bike.

But these first few months with it trying to close the kickr to power meter FTP gap have been brutal.. really brutal.
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Re: New Power meter(s) depression. [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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The number of watts is still important since that is one of two inputs for the power to weight ratio...

https://twitter.com/mungub
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Re: New Power meter(s) depression. [SteveM] [ In reply to ]
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Glad I have P1 pedals; I can take my whatever number from one bike to the next one and they will be exactly the same.

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
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Re: New Power meter(s) depression. [LuisDF] [ In reply to ]
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LuisDF wrote:
Glad I have P1 pedals; I can take my whatever number from one bike to the next one and they will be exactly the same.

I've read enough bad things about those to keep me from ever buying.

The kickr is for training, not racing. As long as it is consistent. If I want a PM for racing, it's P2M.
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Re: New Power meter(s) depression. [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
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SBRcoffee wrote:
As long as it is consistent.

You are the problem.
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Re: New Power meter(s) depression. [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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stevej wrote:
this is why precision AND accuracy matter.

And the ability to at least check the calibration yourself.
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Re: New Power meter(s) depression. [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:
"Powertap stomp test".

Man, that's a blast from the past (1999, to be exact).
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Re: New Power meter(s) depression. [Benv] [ In reply to ]
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Benv wrote:
That is a good metric for pure climbing but not at all when we're talking flatter roads

This misconception seems just as common as the "as long as it's consistent" fallacy.
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