Narrow elbow pads vs a BTA

Mar 26, 15 4:36

Post #1 of 16 (3978 views)

So I've been wondering, what do you think is the most aero, is it better to have your elbows closer together, so close that you can't fit a BTA, or is it faster to have them slightly more apart but with a BTA?

So If I were to only carry 2 bottles on my bike, generally speaking I know the BTA is the best spot to carry it. However, now i'm wondering if it's worth it to just be more narrow up front instead. So the main question is...

1) BTA botte + behind saddle bottle
vs
2) BTA bottle + downtube bottle
vs
3)Narrow elbow pads + downtube botte + behind saddle bottle
The frame is a road bike but with aero base bar and aerobars with shifters on the aerobars.
Thanks!

Re: Narrow elbow pads vs a BTA [Rest] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 15 4:47

Post #2 of 16 (3965 views)

I know this doesn't help, but I have often wondered this as well.

Re: Narrow elbow pads vs a BTA [Rest] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 15 4:55

Post #3 of 16 (3952 views)

Your hips are wider than your elbows. If it were me, I'd go for a comfortable elbow position and easy to reach hydration.

Re: Narrow elbow pads vs a BTA [Rest] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 15 6:35

Post #4 of 16 (3870 views)

I believe on a round tube frame its generally accepted that a bottle on the seat tube is faster than the downtube.

24 Hour World TT Champs-American record holder
Fat Bike Worlds - Race Director
Insta: chris.s.apex

Re: Narrow elbow pads vs a BTA [cmscat50] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 15 6:48

Post #5 of 16 (3856 views)

No

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Re: Narrow elbow pads vs a BTA [Rest] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 15 6:50

Post #6 of 16 (3847 views)

I have the elbow pads on my SC in the second narrowest position possible - and still have room for a Vuka BTA setup.

Re: Narrow elbow pads vs a BTA [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 15 7:01

Post #7 of 16 (3828 views)

One of many....again....on a round tube bike. And I'm no aero expert and have never been to a tunnel so that's all I got.

http://www.multisports.com/news/1064031002.shtml

24 Hour World TT Champs-American record holder
Fat Bike Worlds - Race Director
Insta: chris.s.apex

Re: Narrow elbow pads vs a BTA [cmscat50] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 15 8:04

Post #8 of 16 (3778 views)

You forgot one...

4) BTA + Aero bottle on seat tube.... live off the course and never again worry about launched bottles. Aero bottle is almost aero-neutral on some frame an bikes. A few rare combinations actually make the bike more aero. A behind the seat set-up might be almost aero neutral, but you won't know without a wind tunnel.

Just my personal preference.

TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Re: Narrow elbow pads vs a BTA [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 15 8:12

Post #9 of 16 (3764 views)

Some BTS setups can be aero positive

And bottle launching is not endemic to BTS... It's user error on the installation

Edit: but yes, live off the course and don't omit option 4. That said, there's a 5: BTA only and live off the course

motoguy128 wrote:

You forgot one...

4) BTA + Aero bottle on seat tube.... live off the course and never again worry about launched bottles. Aero bottle is almost aero-neutral on some frame an bikes. A few rare combinations actually make the bike more aero. A behind the seat set-up might be almost aero neutral, but you won't know without a wind tunnel.

Just my personal preference.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Last edited by: ericM40-44: Mar 26, 15 8:13

Re: Narrow elbow pads vs a BTA [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 15 8:24

Post #10 of 16 (3740 views)

motoguy128 wrote:

4) BTA + Aero bottle on seat tube.... live off the course and never again worry about launched bottles. Aero bottle is almost aero-neutral on some frame an bikes. A few rare combinations actually make the bike more aero. A behind the seat set-up might be almost aero neutral, but you won't know without a wind tunnel.

I thought it was said that aero bottles were typically faster on the down tube, and round bottles typically faster on the seat tube. Are all bottles typically faster on the seat tube? I've got a Trek SC and the XLAB Aero TT bottle.

Re: Narrow elbow pads vs a BTA [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 15 8:35

Post #11 of 16 (3726 views)

Are aero studies that investigate storage options generated with or without a rider? The reason I ask is that I can see how having a rider present would minimize the aero penalty of a frame mounted round bottle. I typically run a two bottle setup, BTA and downtube, which to me are the most convenient locations for liquid. The downtube is a secondary location and typically only has a bottle for 1/2 to 2/3 of a race.

Re: Narrow elbow pads vs a BTA [mbwallis] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 15 8:42

Post #12 of 16 (3710 views)

Where the bottle is best varies a lot. You can't really know unless you visit a wind tunnel or velodrome with your bottles and you body on the bike.

So just if you have to put them on the frame, just put one where you like to put it.

Same answer for narrow elbows vs BTA. Some people test faster with the BTA than with maximum narrow elbows. Maybe not everyone though. I think odds are that BTA will be faster overall as it keeps a bottle off your frame.

mbwallis wrote:

motoguy128 wrote:

4) BTA + Aero bottle on seat tube.... live off the course and never again worry about launched bottles. Aero bottle is almost aero-neutral on some frame an bikes. A few rare combinations actually make the bike more aero. A behind the seat set-up might be almost aero neutral, but you won't know without a wind tunnel.

I thought it was said that aero bottles were typically faster on the down tube, and round bottles typically faster on the seat tube. Are all bottles typically faster on the seat tube? I've got a Trek SC and the XLAB Aero TT bottle.

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Re: Narrow elbow pads vs a BTA [Rest] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 15 12:05

Post #13 of 16 (3617 views)

How wide are you planning on setting your elbows in the wide setting. According to cervelo, the best way to optimize BTA aerodynamics is to basically have the arms contacting the bottle, so that there is a minimum amount of space between the bottle and arms. If it is set up like this it will help to smooth out the airflow, reducing drag, but if the arms are wider it will increase the drag. Also, depending on your setup, you can still get very narrow and have just enough room to fit the bottle. Go for option 1, just make sure you have a good BTS setup that tucks the bottle as close to you as possible.

Re: Narrow elbow pads vs a BTA [Rest] [ In reply to ]

Mar 27, 15 13:40

Post #14 of 16 (3480 views)

BTA bottle + behind saddle bottle

Re: Narrow elbow pads vs a BTA [jackmott] [ In reply to ]

Mar 27, 15 14:30

Post #15 of 16 (3450 views)

I think there's a theme with bottles, helmets, even tire widths. If you're not going to test, just pick what you want and move on. Just make sure helmets are "good", tires roll well, and minimize crap hanging off your frame.

/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

Re: Narrow elbow pads vs a BTA [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]

Mar 27, 15 15:17

Post #16 of 16 (3424 views)

"...but that's just, like, your opinion, man."

Not nearly precise enough for the OCD among us.

Our Partners

transition-DOT-area-AT-slowtwitch-DOT-com

Advertise with us

©1999-2024 Slowtwitch, Inc., and Slowtwitch.com
Reproduction of material from any Slowtwitch.com page
without written permission is strictly prohibited.