if you ran chicago in perfect weather in 2:41, why do you think you can run nyc faster when it is a much harder course and you are still recovering? there is no way that you will be able to keep your HR in a range of 8 with the hills (especially the hills in the later miles). know that the biggest hill is the first mile (the mile up the VNB) and the biggest downhill is the second mile (down the hill you just went up). it's pancake flat after that until the 59th street bridge. i would plan for a small positive split if you run the race perfectly because the second half is so much harder than the first half. it sounds like you should go out in 1:19+ and hope you paced it just right but that's a tall order.

Going out 1:19 for the first half was my plan, with the hopes of not fading too much in the second half. As far as why I set this goal was because why not? I just finished Chicago, which essentially could be thought of as a mega training run. I know the course for NYC is harder, which is why I said that I may be over reaching. At the same time, I am already healed, feeling and running strong, so why not use that fitness to try to go a little faster? If you don't set goals how do you achieve them? Sub 2:40 will never happen by accident, it will take serious effort which is what I'm going to give it. So, it may not happen but what do I have to lose? My previous PR before Chicago was 2:53, so I set a lofty goal for Chicago of sub 2:45, which I far exceeded with 2:41. Who knows what would have happened if I went out at a faster pace in Chicago.

Kind of funny but I think I'm gonna go out and crash and burn for fun just to see how fast I can go. Even if I can't run anymore at mile 22, I'll still finish in under 3 hours, 3 weeks after a 2:41 ;)

Hhhmmmm ... I sense some subtle backroom brag here.


.

---

.........................__0.............0
...................._.-\ <,_.........</\_
.....~_.o^,....(...)./.(...)......._/\...

I don't think it's very subtle :)

Sending it out to the ST world does help to make it more official, which goes a long way when you're suffering on race day.

What corral are you assigned to? What is your bib number? The answers to these questions will make a HUGE difference in how successful you will be able to execute your strategy and achieve your pace goal.


.

---

.........................__0.............0
...................._.-\ <,_.........</\_
.....~_.o^,....(...)./.(...)......._/\...

Bib 650, Local Competitive Coral

Based on that number, you will be in the first corall and (I assume) the first wave - which should give you a clear and open road.

Keep up a good pace in the first 8 miles because from 8 to 13 the road will be relatively narrow and if there are slower runners in front then the weaving will slow you down. After 13, the road widens until the finish. Negative splits are doable but pretty challenging because the course is harder in the second half due to three bridges and the 5th Avenue mile hill.

I'd say enjoy it instead of trying to get a PR. Your times are impressive enough to qualify you easily for Boston any day so no point in puking at the end. I've run both Chicago and NYC and Chicago is definitely a faster course - but much narrower.

Good luck.


.

---

.........................__0.............0
...................._.-\ <,_.........</\_
.....~_.o^,....(...)./.(...)......._/\...

More importantly... Is Bill Murray really running this thing?

---

(insert inspirational/witty/comical signature here)

if you ran chicago in perfect weather in 2:41, why do you think you can run nyc faster when it is a much harder course and you are still recovering?

Why? Because this is Slowtwitch and people try and do all kinds of crazy things here.

Marathons at this level, take a lot out of you. Indeed, it takes close to a month to fully recover. To think that, you could go faster, near the end of that month on a harder course, is optimistic.

The "better" approach if you want to get faster is to take a full recovery. Analyze your race. Look at where, you could have done better in training and in terms of race-day performance, then like most good coaches recommend, take six months and start the build up to running a spring marathon.


But people never listen to this sort of stuff! :)


And who knows, maybe he jogged the 2:41 in Chicago! :)

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

More importantly....is Macca going to finish this thing?

https://twitter.com/...s/522949512080277504

Keep up a good pace in the first 8 miles because from 8 to 13 the road will be relatively narrow and if there are slower runners in front then the weaving will slow you down.

Actually the good news for this runner is that, for the most part in these bigger marathons, if you are running, in the 2:30 - 2:50 range, you'll have all kinds of room. In fact it can get rather lonely. This is the no-mans-land of marathon running these days. After the elites who are under 2:15 - 2:20, until the masses start piling in around 3:00 hours, there are relatively few runners in this time range - call them strong recreational runners. The masses, think these folks insanely fast, but they are over 30 minutes behind the front of the race!!

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

this story likely will have an unhappy ending. it's extraordinary to even/negative split nyc on fresh legs and properly tapered.

Fleck,

I totally agree. However, NYCM is unique in that it has three waves that are 20 minutes apart. His number indicates he will be in the first corral, but I don't know which wave. I would suspect he would be in the first wave since he is local-competitive. If that is the case, then he won't have a problem being bogged down by "slower runners" and he should be good for 26.2 miles no matter how narrow the course. But perchance he ends up the the second wave, or God forbid the third wave, then he will be running 2 hours between runners.

My times are not as fast as his, but in one particular year in NYCM, I ran 7:00 /m in the first three miles (adrenaline) over the bridge and onto Brooklyn. When the roads converged and I settled down into a more decent 8/mile, I was surprised how many runners were already in front - and the were doing 9 or 10 per mile. Still have to figure out how that happened. Maybe the bottom bridge was much faster for them.

.

---

.........................__0.............0
...................._.-\ <,_.........</\_
.....~_.o^,....(...)./.(...)......._/\...

However, NYCM is unique in that it has three waves that are 20 minutes apart

Indeed, I was assuming total mass start, which I know many of the bigger events have moved away from.

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Contrary to other comments here, I like this idea. Why not take a chance? Some of us slog through long work days behind a desk all day, every day with very little risk or competition. Set a lofty goal and have fun with it. Like gambling, know your limits (i.e. don't get injured) and be prepared to lose on this. Though, you can't win big unless you take a risk!

He'll get a clean start in the local competitive corral which is at the front and if he's lucky, he can latch onto some of the guys shooting in the low-2:40, high-2:30's crowd. Not a lot of them, but the NYM is a big race... sub-2:40 only gets you in the top 150 or so and people tend to "clump" right around benchmark times (ie, 10's and 5's) because nice round numbers are great goals. The only downside to the local competitive is that it's on the bottom level of the bridge so the views aren't as good. That and the piss that rains down from the upper level before the start.

This will be my 9th NYCM.

I'm an official pacer again this year. I WAS going to pace for 3:10 but now after breaking my hip at the start of the year, I'll be pacing a much safer 4:15. So, if anyone is planning to run that time, you're with me.

And local competitive is the first wave, first corall. You'll most likely start on the other side of the divide at the foot of the Verrazano from the Pro men, so you'll see all those guys. Good place to start (I've been there a few times). Good luck Dblikelink and everyone else running!

---

~~~~~~~~~
Empire Tri Coach
Team Gatorade Endurance
USATF Coach | NYRR Distance Pacer
Dad of twins

Local Competitive is down below (Green). Orange is to the left of the divide of the elites in Blue. There are like 100 sub-elites in Orange A.

I entered a predicted finish of 2:48:30 based on a 2:50 at Boston, but there's no way I'll be running that now. I'll be lucky to break 3 hours.

Seeded in the 2200s, Orange A. After those sub-elites clear out, it should be open road - at least for the 8 miles that Orange is separated from the other lines.

That's fast. I am shooting for 3:10-3:13. Hopefully I will have it in me in 13 days.

---

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

I'm orange B. Projected time when entered was 3:10 but I stopped cycling and swimming and put the work in. By Vdot tables and 10k test/Yasso 800s I'm shooting for 2:59:59-:) this not to be back door brag, this to ask experience NYCMer what the start will be like?

---

@rhyspencer

Orange A here (wave 1), curious about start also. I have only done one other corral start and there was a good bit of starting and stopping, hitting a jog, then running into the person in front of you...then actually crossing the start line and a couple miles of some major weaving. I think I'm better placed here at NYC, but curious if it is going to be a jogging start, and how many people are in each corral. Regardless, I'll probably bring along a nutrition bottle to start so I can skip the first few water stops and then ditch it when the crowds are gone. Oh yeah...how is the porta potty situation? I'm a "late goer", I like to wait till the last second if possible, but don't want to get stuck in some huge line behind people starting much later than me.

Ports potties inside corrals.

Good luck at the race.

Now back to the football -:) #Steelers

---

@rhyspencer

Good luck and can't wait to here if you hit sub 3. Not sure how the start is setup but I would guess that like other major marathons it will be hectic if you are not starting within a SCY pool length from the start. On another note, I love how it's always considered a backdoor brag when you mention a goal that just happens to be faster than somebody else's. Basically, anybody that ever mentions a goal will be backdoor bragging to someone unless they are the last finisher at every race. When somebody mentions a performance that is faster than your own you can either look at it as they are bragging or you are hating. I have always used the latter as fuel to push myself harder but it seems that many people on ST seem to think the former :)

No problem with bragging.

Just back it up by posting the bib# :)

---

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment