Dave,

If the "some" you moved the seat back is less than ~40mm then you're going to be even more scrunched up that you are in your original post where you already are scrunched up.

What saddle are you riding. Your ability to get into a comfortable aero position with appropriate anterior pelvic tilt is influenced by your saddle and how you sit on it more than just about any other variable. Once you find the correct saddle and learn how to sit on it both your nether regions and back will thank you immensely. It will make riding aero outdoors as well as on the trainer so much more comfortable. Oh and how about the fan/s you're running while on the trainer?

YMMV,

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

I'm starting to think he must be on the ST payroll. Slowman pays him by the click.

So, need your help here since I still cannot get how do you set a saddle on a brand new person. It does not matter where I had it, IMO, and here is why.

The saddles are the normal long tri saddles.

So for my bit fit, the saddle nose is 44mm in from of the BB.

Things I read say go to 0mm.

One guy talking about his fit is 20mm back, and folks are telling him to put it at 5mm in front.

So there is only so far back the saddle will go on the rails but it would then be way behind the BB which seems to be against everything I have read?

Again, I am open to playing with anything. I have seems from 100 to 140. There is a point with my back, with this seat up, that I may have to get a stem with a larger angle since I can only bend over so far for so long.

So I see the reference for seat height, makes sense. But still have yet to hear what about seat position for a triathlon bike.

Thanks

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Dave,

As you've noted there are a number of thoughts on appropriate position of the tip of the saddle nose in relation to the bottom bracket center. I just measured mine and it's ~35mm behind the BB center but I ride a Dash saddle which one would move ~ 50mm farther back than a long nosed saddle for comparable fit. So that would likely put my saddle position more like 15mm ahead of the BB if I were riding a long nosed saddle.

All that said, I suspect you might find huge relief for your back if you found the right split nosed saddle and rode it correctly. My poor 64 year old back was injured when I was a teenager and reminds me every day but with a Dash or similar saddle I can rotate my hips forward rather than bend my aching back and find a very comfortable aero position. When riding a long nosed saddle one tends to sit up more erect in an effort to protect "the goods" but then to get into an aero position you have to flex your lower back a great deal....leading to pain, sciatic nerve problems........... Sitting on the right saddle the correct way makes the rest of the fitting process much easier. Perhaps you can borrow a good split nosed seat from someone to try out.

In regards to where to place it (the split nosed saddle), I'd start with it ~ 3cm behind the BB center and go from there.

YMMV,

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

Trying not to change too many things at once and at the moment, like my long nose saddle. I do have a split with no nose on my trainer so I can use different saddles to move around the pressure points. :)

So I moved my long nose from the fitted 44mm in front to 0 now. Which is way back compared to your's if we have the same saddle type.

I guess what I need to do is take some video at least how things look now and post and see what you think. Interesting folks say I was not out far enough in the first video. Since I was told to move the aero bars back when I moved the seat up, that is what I just did, but, as I say, I get inputs both ways so I just scratch my head.

Thanks

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Until you find the right saddle, you'll never get the right position. This is one advantage with going to a fitter, the opportunity to try several saddles in succession and find one that works...

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"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"

I like my saddle. Been using these same type for years.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

...and it's most likely ALSO preventing you from staying in the aero position. You used to say exactly the same thing about crank length.

Stop farting around and just go get a proper fit done...you say you just want to figure out one thing (cranks and seat position) when in reality you want a "from scratch" bike fit. So just go effin' do it already :-/

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

\
Wow, have a normal bike seat that tons of folks use, but something for me, it also is an issue. :(

Now that it looks like no 2018 bikes with disc brakes, getting fitted on my P2's does not feel as bad.

Just wish Dan was home in October. I was willing to dump a day with the family at Disneyland to let him tear me apart.

But I am getting closer to just spending the money. One person said they would come to my house, so got to check something like this out.

I do smile that all the other posts from folks asking about position get none of the stuff I get but what the heck.

I do thank folks for inputs. It does have me riding 175's again, so a little progress. :)

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

while you're down for Disneyland, go see Jim at Ero. He's at the Carson Velodrome, which is about 20-30 minutes west of Anaheim (depending on the time of day). He books out far in advance, so go check his calendar.

http://ero-sports.com/2017/

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--------------------------------------------
TEAM F3 Undurance

Perhaps that's something you might want to reflect on: Why do you think that might be?

(That's a rhetorical question BTW...no need to answer)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Yet its been pointed out that you are arching your lower back instead of rolling your pelvis forward. Either you haven't figured out how to correctly sit on a saddle, or you're on one that won't comfortably allow you to sit properly. This is very likely the cause of your back pain (or at least contributes to it). One of the biggest improvements I made was to switch from an old-school tri saddle (conventional long nose shape with neoprene padding on the nose) to a Sitero, which allowed me to rotate my pelvis farther forward. This both gave me a slightly lower position with a flatter back, and since I could comfortably support myself better on the saddle instead of trying to shift some weight off of it, I was more relaxed and comfortable. This in turn reduced the amount of energy being wasted trying to support myself, which led to a slight increase in power...

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"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"

Yeah...most don't realize that "old school" triathlon saddles with a "padded" nose aren't intended to be ridden with both sit bones contacting when in the aero position. The reason the nose is padded is because you have to "pick a side" and rest your body weight on just one of the sit bones. The extra padding helps (somewhat). If you try to ride in the aero position on one like you sit on a road saddle, it will naturally lead to the pelvis being tilted rearward more than it should be.

The truncated nose saddles, like the ISMs and the like (Sitero) allow the rider to actually rest BOTH sitbones (ischial tuberosities) on the saddle in the aero position, AND allow the pelvis to tilt naturally forward, because there's nothing getting in the way (i.e. the "nose").

Win-win.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Interesting. I did buy one of these nose less saddles and I agree, I do not have to sit on a side of it.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Tom,

Just a bit of clarification, when setting properly on a Dash or similar saddle I'm rolled all the way onto the pubic rami as apposed to the ischial tuberosities which are not close to touching the saddle. I'd assumed most others sitting properly were as well.

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

Well...where do the Ischium end and the Pubic Ramus begin? ;-) It seems to be a bit of a "continuum" to me...

https://en.wikipedia.org/...tal_pelvis-pubis.svg

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I guess my point would be that I have no pressure on what people would refer to as their sit bones i.e. the actual tuberosities so I'm careful not to even mention them in relation to sitting on an Adamo or Dash saddle other than to say one should be rolled forward beyond a point where they're contacting the saddle.

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

He'll really need his mirror with that setup!

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Formerly DrD

I will try to remember to wear on my next video post. :)

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

sounds like you need a coach that also specializes in bike fit. Maybe Ian Murray can make the trip up to you. Sorry couldn't resist.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

No, fair. Now, no need for a coach, this is still a hobby and I will NOT cross that line to make this more of a Type A thing for me, bad enough already.
I get plenty of coaching on ST. :)

But, for the right person, am ready to pay for a bike fit. Was hoping Dan, but cannot see him until the Rocklin road show next year. If Ian was in my area, I would bite just to get a data point and one opinion.

I am still working on testing for crank lengths. Right now working on getting HR info. I hate long processes. :( But, this is the right time of the year to do it.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Have done a number of test with 2 cranks lengths, different RPM's, and HR tracking at 200 watts.
So far Franks says my numbers are supporting more power at shorter cranks, and lower RPM's.

So more testing tomorrow where rather than 110 to 65 rpm, we are doing testing at 80 to 40 rpm and 175mm cranks.
Will be interesting to see how the numbers go assuming we continue to reduce cranks lengths, and yes, keep raising the seat. :)

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

More power with shorter cranks at LOWER rpm is a pretty weird result. Unless your old position was completely sapping your ability to apply pressure to the pedals - like in a really major way. But even so I would think that if that were the case it would equally hamper your ability to spin the cranks... so this result might say more about the test method than what your best fit is.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Are you still in erg mode? Why do testing at 40rpm?

In these tests, not working on fit.

Yep, everyone thinks one has to spin high RPM, etc. including me. I have an open mind to let the data guide me and will see what is recommended.

Now, I believe, as one example, Chrisse spun low RPM's and folks gave her a bad time. She did okay. :)

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep