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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [Warbird] [ In reply to ]
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Warbird wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Could never get in the aerobars since it was SO windy.


That's the best time to be in the aerobars...

Not when you have an 808 in the front

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [sixt3] [ In reply to ]
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sixt3 wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
asellerg wrote:
Here's a link to a decent summary of Sutto's opinion on the matter:

http://trisutto.com/...bike-cadence-debate/

And one from Cam Watt, one of his coaches:

http://trisutto.com/...reat-cadence-debate/

Many if not most here on Slowtwitch think Sutto has no idea what he's talking about, so take these with a grain of salt, but it does explain why Chrissie was pushing big gears. I happen to believe he knows what he's talking about on this topic.


Very interesting. Thanks for the links.

I raced yesterday with 175's cranks and stayed at low RPM. Could never get in the aerobars since it was SO windy.
Felt like I had more power, even though my bike time still sucked
. Did not seem to impact my run, but have not seen run
splits yet though.

Thanks again for the links!! I know with lower RPM for the same power my HR is lower.


Is it possible / likely that you were able to produce slightly higher power because you were not in aero, and not being in aero caused more resistance...leading to a slower bike time?? Would a windy day not be the best time to be in aero??

Did you actually put out more power, as measured with a power meter, or are you somehow able to eyeball your power output?

I felt stronger, but clearly sitting up, the power I could do is way less. When you have an 808 in the front, not, I was holding on for dear life!!!

I do not have a powermeter on my bike, but should I? :(

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:

I felt stronger, but clearly sitting up, the power I could do is way less.(

This is the opposite of true.
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
sixt3 wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
asellerg wrote:
Here's a link to a decent summary of Sutto's opinion on the matter:

http://trisutto.com/...bike-cadence-debate/

And one from Cam Watt, one of his coaches:

http://trisutto.com/...reat-cadence-debate/

Many if not most here on Slowtwitch think Sutto has no idea what he's talking about, so take these with a grain of salt, but it does explain why Chrissie was pushing big gears. I happen to believe he knows what he's talking about on this topic.


Very interesting. Thanks for the links.

I raced yesterday with 175's cranks and stayed at low RPM. Could never get in the aerobars since it was SO windy.
Felt like I had more power, even though my bike time still sucked
. Did not seem to impact my run, but have not seen run
splits yet though.

Thanks again for the links!! I know with lower RPM for the same power my HR is lower.


Is it possible / likely that you were able to produce slightly higher power because you were not in aero, and not being in aero caused more resistance...leading to a slower bike time?? Would a windy day not be the best time to be in aero??

Did you actually put out more power, as measured with a power meter, or are you somehow able to eyeball your power output?


I felt stronger, but clearly sitting up, the power I could do is way less. When you have an 808 in the front, not, I was holding on for dear life!!!

I do not have a powermeter on my bike, but should I? :(

Dave,
Are we even on the same forum??? I have so much less 'experience' and 'success' in tri than you, nor am I an engineer, but I do know how to read. And, I have a least a hint of common sense.... smh ...
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [sixt3] [ In reply to ]
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sixt3 wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
sixt3 wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
asellerg wrote:
Here's a link to a decent summary of Sutto's opinion on the matter:

http://trisutto.com/...bike-cadence-debate/

And one from Cam Watt, one of his coaches:

http://trisutto.com/...reat-cadence-debate/

Many if not most here on Slowtwitch think Sutto has no idea what he's talking about, so take these with a grain of salt, but it does explain why Chrissie was pushing big gears. I happen to believe he knows what he's talking about on this topic.


Very interesting. Thanks for the links.

I raced yesterday with 175's cranks and stayed at low RPM. Could never get in the aerobars since it was SO windy.
Felt like I had more power, even though my bike time still sucked
. Did not seem to impact my run, but have not seen run
splits yet though.

Thanks again for the links!! I know with lower RPM for the same power my HR is lower.


Is it possible / likely that you were able to produce slightly higher power because you were not in aero, and not being in aero caused more resistance...leading to a slower bike time?? Would a windy day not be the best time to be in aero??

Did you actually put out more power, as measured with a power meter, or are you somehow able to eyeball your power output?


I felt stronger, but clearly sitting up, the power I could do is way less. When you have an 808 in the front, not, I was holding on for dear life!!!

I do not have a powermeter on my bike, but should I? :(


Dave,
Are we even on the same forum??? I have so much less 'experience' and 'success' in tri than you, nor am I an engineer, but I do know how to read. And, I have a least a hint of common sense.... smh ...

Everything I wrote makes total sense to me

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [sixt3] [ In reply to ]
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I am an engineer and what he says makes no sense to me either. You're not alone, that's for sure.
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
Could never get in the aerobars since it was SO windy.
Felt like I had more power


I felt stronger, but clearly sitting up, the power I could do is way less.

I do not have a powermeter on my bike, but should I? :(


h2ofun wrote:
Everything I wrote makes total sense to me
Most riders put out less power when in a full aero position. You felt stronger but are convinced, for some reason, that you were putting out way less power because you were sitting up.

Yes, you need a powermeter.
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
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There needs to be a collective effort to stop feeding the troll

When one sees wilful ignorance in the face of evidence, its best to see it for what it is rather than attempting to continue to convince them otherwise
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
I felt stronger, but clearly sitting up, the power I could do is way less. When you have an 808 in the front, not, I was holding on for dear life!!!

I do not have a powermeter on my bike, but should I? :(

For future reference: the main cause of aerodynamic drag when cycling is the sack of water and fat occupying the seat. It is always best to optimize the drag of said sack. The impact of wheels is relatively minimal; less than for example tight vs. loose clothing or even an cheap vented helmet vs. an aero helmet.

Therefore, if it's so damned windy you can't hold the damned 808, put on your damned training wheel so you can keep your elbows in the pads.

Also: of course you need a power meter. Does a damned contractor need a measuring tape?

FFS.

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
Warbird wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Could never get in the aerobars since it was SO windy.


That's the best time to be in the aerobars...


Not when you have an 808 in the front


Very confused by what you think an 808 is, and also your choice of bike shoe.


Now this guy at your race had an 808 or deeper


_________________________________
Fit Endurance Coaching - Head Coach|Facebook
USAT L1 Coach | BikeFit Certified Fitter | Contributing Writer - Triathlete Magazine | ROKA
Last edited by: JustinNorCal: Oct 10, 17 9:14
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [JustinNorCal] [ In reply to ]
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JustinNorCal wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Warbird wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Could never get in the aerobars since it was SO windy.


That's the best time to be in the aerobars...


Not when you have an 808 in the front


Very confused by what you think an 808 is, and also your choice of bike shoe.

OK, if this is in fact from the race he's describing, then we really should stop talking to him, because everything he tells us could be #fakenews.

I'm willing to cut him some slack on the shoes; in sprint duathlons (was this a du or a tri?) riding in running shoes with cages can be a win due to reduced transition times.

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [Richard Blaine] [ In reply to ]
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Richard Blaine wrote:
JustinNorCal wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Warbird wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Could never get in the aerobars since it was SO windy.


That's the best time to be in the aerobars...


Not when you have an 808 in the front


Very confused by what you think an 808 is, and also your choice of bike shoe.


OK, if this is in fact from the race he's describing, then we really should stop talking to him, because everything he tells us could be #fakenews.

I'm willing to cut him some slack on the shoes; in sprint duathlons (was this a du or a tri?) riding in running shoes with cages can be a win due to reduced transition times.

This was at the Golden State Tri this past weekend. One of my friends won the race and I have done it in past. Several pics on their Facebook page under TBF Racing

_________________________________
Fit Endurance Coaching - Head Coach|Facebook
USAT L1 Coach | BikeFit Certified Fitter | Contributing Writer - Triathlete Magazine | ROKA
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [Richard Blaine] [ In reply to ]
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Richard Blaine wrote:
h2ofun wrote:

I felt stronger, but clearly sitting up, the power I could do is way less. When you have an 808 in the front, not, I was holding on for dear life!!!

I do not have a powermeter on my bike, but should I? :(


For future reference: the main cause of aerodynamic drag when cycling is the sack of water and fat occupying the seat. It is always best to optimize the drag of said sack. The impact of wheels is relatively minimal; less than for example tight vs. loose clothing or even an cheap vented helmet vs. an aero helmet.

Therefore, if it's so damned windy you can't hold the damned 808, put on your damned training wheel so you can keep your elbows in the pads.

Also: of course you need a power meter. Does a damned contractor need a measuring tape?

FFS.

Yep, I sure wish I would have changed my front wheel to a training wheel I had on the other bike since I raced two races. But as I was getting ready for the second race a call went out to help another racer who had left his front wheel home. So I loaned him my front training wheel. Told him after the race I loaned him the wrong one. :(

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [JustinNorCal] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JustinNorCal wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Warbird wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Could never get in the aerobars since it was SO windy.


That's the best time to be in the aerobars...


Not when you have an 808 in the front


Very confused by what you think an 808 is, and also your choice of bike shoe.


Now this guy at your race had an 808 or deeper

Lets see, I just love when folks make conclusions on things they have no idea.

Do you know how many races I did Sunday? Do you know the distances? Do you know when the wind really picked up.
Do you treat anyone this negative in your life? And I sure hope you are not a coach to anyone.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [Richard Blaine] [ In reply to ]
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Richard Blaine wrote:
JustinNorCal wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Warbird wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Could never get in the aerobars since it was SO windy.


That's the best time to be in the aerobars...


Not when you have an 808 in the front


Very confused by what you think an 808 is, and also your choice of bike shoe.


OK, if this is in fact from the race he's describing, then we really should stop talking to him, because everything he tells us could be #fakenews.

I'm willing to cut him some slack on the shoes; in sprint duathlons (was this a du or a tri?) riding in running shoes with cages can be a win due to reduced transition times.

Yea, you might want to get the rest of the story before you jump on the attack wagon.

And how many beat me in the run in the second race. 60 years old, 3 miles, 18:44 for a 6:15 pace. So people can judge me all they want.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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So, what is the full story? Which races did you do and which races did you use the 808 or a training wheel?

Also, why do you think you produced less power when sitting up??

Finally, what does your age or running speed have to do with your bike power and crank length?? I noticed a 58yr old beat you...is he just a young gun and will have to wait until 60 to really compare??
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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Am I correct that you rode on your 808s for the super sprint race? (The entire race which you finished in under a half hour?)
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
Yea, you might want to get the rest of the story before you jump on the attack wagon.

And how many beat me in the run in the second race. 60 years old, 3 miles, 18:44 for a 6:15 pace. So people can judge me all they want.

See, the problem is that you're not giving us all the information but still expect all the answers, and get cranky about any answer you get.

And good for you on the fast running. Now learn to deal with interpersonal communication as well as you run, or expect to be pilloried every time you post here.

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [Richard Blaine] [ In reply to ]
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It’s very simple he wants us to help him with his biking by explaining to us how well he runs.

Remind me to start a thread later about helping me swim and I’ll just talk about how good my biking is the whole time.
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
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Can you help me learn how to swim........I'm awesome at badminton? Pretty much no one my age can beat me!
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [blaxxuede] [ In reply to ]
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You should probabaly talk to all the great swimmers on the board about it.

Just make sure when they explain what you should be doing, argue with them and explain you are good at badminton so your piss poor swimming is irrelevant in this conversation about how to become a better swimmer.
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
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Great I am working up 5-6 good threads to start here so I can "not so backdoor" brag my Badminton skills, that should be a start to improving my swim.

I could possibly throw in a video of me flailing about in a kiddie pool to make it look more convincing.......
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
Warbird wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Could never get in the aerobars since it was SO windy.


That's the best time to be in the aerobars...


Not when you have an 808 in the front

I think it's worth the investment in time, position, and practice to get comfortable enough to be able to manage this. My race front is a 100mm and I haven't had a single problem staying aero when the wind kicks up (up to 25mph gusty crosswinds). As has been stated, this is when it's most important to stay aero, as aero gains are magnified and aero sins are punished when it's windy!!

-Eric
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
I do not have a powermeter on my bike, but should I? :(

If you want to know what you're actually doing in real world riding conditions, yes.

One of the things I learned on my very first ride outdoors with a power meter is that the same power on the flats feels very different than on a climb, and that I was going easier on the flats than I thought I was, and much harder than I thought on the climbs. Headwinds, riding position, road conditions, all of these will show up as different power/speed ratios. If you were sitting up, with a good headwind or crosswind, you could very easily be putting out more power but going slower...

"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [blaxxuede] [ In reply to ]
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I was really hoping I could learn from kind of valuable information from this thread, and it finally paid off.... I mean up until now I was confused about how running fast has anything to do with crankarm length and its efficiency, I read all the helpful information given but not taken by the op.... but finally I realized that this thread could help me out!!!....after years of searching I found someone to help me further advance my badminton skills!!! but we cant compare statistics because we are in a different age group.... So ill wait a few years and then we can compare the amount of power needed to swat the birdie over the net. I bet my birdie speed will be close to matching yours with less power needed....btw I averaged a .450 batting average for my adult baseball league.
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