I unfortunately don't think that people have enough directional control in the water to practically do this in a race. I think the least interrupted swims I've ever had have been TT starts. One person goes off every 3 seconds. You barely ever run into the back of a huge pack of breaststrokers since everyone is spread out on the swim course. Not sure this can or should be implemented in very large races but I don't know why more races don't do it.

So...you want to penalize someone that is slower (or having a bad swim, or...) by making them swim longer distances? Maybe we should assign you an escort boat so you can motor through unimpeded in its draft. Or we could have a second marked swim course, and if you don't meet a certain time standard you get to swim the B course.

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

Duathlon.

Define "slow". Are you going to generalize by saying 2:00/100M is slow? What if you're in an older AG where my slow produces the fastest time in their AG for an older athlete.

And what about mass starts or the rolling starts that were implemented at some races last year, where you got to essentially seed yourself? Seems like the recent Tri Mag interview with Messick indicated that was a general success from those polled.

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Steve Johnson
DARK HORSE TRIATHLON |

Works in road running all the time. Doesn't matter if you're 16 or 60, if you run a 6:30 mile pace, you're in corral 6. Or whatever.

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

I would not want to penalize them. I am not thinking they swim 50 yards outside. How about ten yards?
OR we let them have the inside, near the buoys. I do not want for them to get ran over by faster swimmers and I do not want to have to swim around and/or get kicked (breaststrokers) by a group of 3 abreast breastrokers. Give the slower swimmers a safer place, relieve their anxiety.
How slow? We know when others waves are passing us. Like in cycling, let faster swimmer choose a line.
Yes, it is idealistic, but if it were a general rule, we could improve safety.

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Team Zoot So Cal

I do not want to have to swim around and/or get kicked (breaststrokers) by a group of 3 abreast breastrokers.

Unless the race has wave starts, it would be rare for a breaststroker (or 3) to get ahead of anyone doing free. If the breaststroker is from a wave ahead of you, then swimming to the outside won't help as there will still be a cluster at the buoys. I wouldn't mind if excessive breaststroking was illegal.


Like in cycling, let faster swimmer choose a line.

The faster swimmer does choose the line and the line goes around the slower swimmers in front of him. The slower swimmer can't detect someone coming from behind and then move out of their way as you can in cycling.

You're trying to legislate stupidity which never works. FWIW, I've never seen "3 abreast breaststrokers". Likewise, I've been in triathlons off and on since 1985, and have yet to be kicked by someone doing breaststroke. I've been mauled more often by freestylers than anything.

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

We can't even get them to stay right on the bike!

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

I don't like this one bit. As somebody with a history of swimming and palying H2O polo, I can say that there are few things that bring me more joy in this sport than motoring over people in the swim.

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When all is said and done. More is usually said than done
Ba Ba Booey

I too played water polo. I have swam over the slow swimmers when they converge in front of what I thought was a good line. I do not like doing that to anyone.

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Team Zoot So Cal

I do not want to legislate. I want they idea out there so slower swimmer are safer.
Oceanside, two weeks ago, I had a early/mid wave start and had 3 buddies breaststroking and chatting away ahead of me. Thought there was room inbetween two of them, they closed the hole and I got kicked in the throat. No big deal, I played water polo, but why not try to share this idea and make it safer for all.
Yes, it may never happen, but why not encourage the idea at races? If the race director said before the race, "Hey, if you are a slower swimmer, move outside?"
Yes, seeding races by swim times would help too.

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Team Zoot So Cal

For what it's worth, I have been kicked by breaststrokers.

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

If the race director said before the race, "Hey, if you are a slower swimmer, move outside?"

I don't think that would completely solve the problem either. The few races I have done that allow self seeding a lot of people WAY over estimated their swimming ability.

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

You are awesome. Feel better now?

"Swimming is for the birds" - Kenny Souza

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

I respectfully disagree. They did a TT start at Lifetime Miami a few weeks ago and the whole course was clogged up. I got kicked in the face three times and had to stop each time to put my goggles back on (fwiw, it was choppy so you couldn't really see someone until you were on top of them).

Kenny would say that. Then he would race duathlons in Speedo's.

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Team Zoot So Cal

Yup.

Sounds to me like someone is a slow swimmer who has been swam over.

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When all is said and done. More is usually said than done
Ba Ba Booey

I like these... it's like a public service announcement that no matter where you go or what you do, there are going to be terrible people who get excited about committing acts that moral people find reprehensible.

It is actually extremely difficult to avoid swimming over the top of slower swimmers. Just because someone can swim, does not mean that they have super vision and super fast reactions. You come up on slow swimmers quickly and visibility is often not great.

Swimming through previous waves of swimmers is like sprinting through a night club with the fog machine on. It is pretty much certain that you are going to bump into someone.

If races were to " suggest" that slower swimmers might consider the outside/inside, it might reduce accidents.

With mass starts I feel that people who get swum over kind of deserved it. (I mean why push and shove your way to the front if you are just going to get on people's way).

This is not the case with wave starts. Why not give people that do not want to get swim over a way to opt out?

Terrible people? How judgmental of you. Ask yourself who is the terrible person; the guy who (kinda) jokingly says he swim over people or the one who judges people based on a single internet post.

I suppose you would just like me to swim on the outside of a swim course so as to not run over anybody. Anything else you'd like me to do on race day that would make you happy? Or that would not make me so terrible? (if you want to compare who is moral and who is terrible feel free to PM me)

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When all is said and done. More is usually said than done
Ba Ba Booey

Very well said. Thank you

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When all is said and done. More is usually said than done
Ba Ba Booey