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Most aero advantage for the $

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jeremyb

Apr 26, 12 8:59

Post #51 of 74 (1524 views)

Re: Most aero advantage for the $ [FrostyJ] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

the slack seat tube angle of a road bike would not work with an integrated aerobar designed for steeper seat tube angles

also it would look stupid

+1lap: Lightweight Cyclocross Bikes
It's not how fast you go fast, it's how fast you go slow

jeremyb

Apr 26, 12 9:03

Post #52 of 74 (1521 views)

Re: Most aero advantage for the $ [jackmott] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

jackmott wrote:

and I think 2011 is the only time a top contender was on one of the top bikes, and he broke the course record.

kona, with the high wind variability, and tendency for bike studs to be on off brand bikes is probably the worst way possible to make any kind of comparison.

radelj44 wrote:

I love when people make comments like this.

1st place's bike split in kona:
2011: 4:24
2010: 4:31
2009: 4:37
2008: 4:37
2007: 4:37
2006: 4:18
2005: 4:25

That's 6 years of 'improvements' to bikes.

Golf is even more famous for bogus improvements. The statistical longest driver on the PGA Tour for the past 10 years has always been 315-319 yards. YET, every single year a new driver comes out and that pro says he hits the ball 10 yards further with it. If that was true, that pro would be hitting 400 yards now.

Jack, are you saying that the Cervelo P3alu would be holding the OP back? You make a good point about the hawaii times, but come on ---- those cervelo p3alu's are fast

2003 TdF Stage 19 TT (the rainy one that Ullrich crashed on) Tyler averaged 33.5mph over 49km in the rain.

He was probably doped, but still...

+1lap: Lightweight Cyclocross Bikes
It's not how fast you go fast, it's how fast you go slow

(This post was edited by jeremyb on Apr 26, 12 9:04)

Tom A.

Apr 26, 12 9:08

Post #53 of 74 (1516 views)

Re: Most aero advantage for the $ [DarkSpeedWorks] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

DarkSpeedWorks wrote:

Tom A. wrote:

I don't think that is true...

Well, if you ever examine the guts of some modern indexed shifters, you'll see that it's not linear. Actually, if you just look at how modern indexed rear derailleurs work and know some basic geometry, it also apparent there.

If you ever do tackle this project, I'd be interested to know how you will approach doing the calculations. I am sure it is possible, but it seems like it will be hard to do it precisely.

I don't think so...I'm pretty sure the geometries of the derailleurs are designed so that a fixed amount of cable pull generates a fixed amount of jockey pulley movement, hence Shimano's "2:1" actuation ratio and SRAM's "1:1" actuation ratio.

If this wasn't the case, then I wouldn't be able to use 10sp Shimano derailleurs with 9sp shifters, or vice versa (I've done both)...and products such as the J-tek shift mate wouldn't work either.

The simple thing to confirm this would be to take apart a bar end shifter and see if the detent grooves are spaced uniformly, I guess.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

jackmott

Apr 26, 12 9:11

Post #54 of 74 (1508 views)

Re: Most aero advantage for the $ [jeremyb] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

holding him back a teeny bit sure.
not a substantial amount in a triathlon though!

Meet Pro Triathlete Matty Reed at ATC - Sat May 25 - Captex!
The newest tri shop in Austin - ATC 360
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Tom A.

Apr 26, 12 9:19

Post #55 of 74 (1499 views)

Re: Most aero advantage for the $ [jeremyb] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

jeremyb wrote:

the slack seat tube angle of a road bike would not work with an integrated aerobar designed for steeper seat tube angles

also it would look stupid

Like I said earlier...that depends on the road bike, and how you put it all together ;-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

jeremyb

Apr 26, 12 9:21

Post #56 of 74 (1491 views)

Re: Most aero advantage for the $ [Tom A.] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Tom A. wrote:

jeremyb wrote:

the slack seat tube angle of a road bike would not work with an integrated aerobar designed for steeper seat tube angles

also it would look stupid

Like I said earlier...that depends on the road bike, and how you put it all together ;-)

there's the exception, yes

+1lap: Lightweight Cyclocross Bikes
It's not how fast you go fast, it's how fast you go slow

FrostyJ

Apr 26, 12 9:39

Post #57 of 74 (1474 views)

Re: Most aero advantage for the $ [jeremyb] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

jeremyb wrote:

the slack seat tube angle of a road bike would not work with an integrated aerobar designed for steeper seat tube angles

also it would look stupid

Not sure I follow. Let's sat the OP has a +6 deg 90mm stem on his road bike, then a 3T Ventus bar could work pretty well. I agree that the slack geometry of a road bike does not make a good tri bike but that is a whole different issue.

http://www.frostyjunction.com/
https://twitter.com/FrostyJunction

Record10Carbon

Apr 26, 12 9:45

Post #58 of 74 (1462 views)

Re: Most aero advantage for the $ [Tom A.] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Most current systems are uniform. However, they are not on some MTN systems where the Der has the spring in the reverse. Back in the 8 / 9 speed days if I recall Suntour and Mavic had rates that were on elliptical lobes within the shifter, always buggy as piss to contend with.

Okay, that being said - as I presume you have seen, the upper wheel (OEM) from Shimano and Campy both have some side to side play on the axle. This is to accommodate slight mis-adjustments in the derailleur and let the chain have just a bit of play to properly engage with the cogset (helped in place with ramped plates, pins, groves, and what not). But, you (not the other poster) is the one who is correct. While the BRAKES are NOT linear in most applications (and a weakness of many TT style brake levers) the shifting is a constant on most of the shifting systems that we use on our bikes.
----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

jeremyb

Apr 26, 12 9:47

Post #59 of 74 (1461 views)

Re: Most aero advantage for the $ [FrostyJ] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

He'd be too stretched out ---- would need a forward seatpost

+1lap: Lightweight Cyclocross Bikes
It's not how fast you go fast, it's how fast you go slow

jeremyb

Apr 26, 12 9:51

Post #60 of 74 (1454 views)

Re: Most aero advantage for the $ [dmounts] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Just saw you're in Fair Oaks, I'm in Sacramento, cool.

There's a 58cm P2sl that has 2 days left and is only $650 shipped link

Throw a wheel cover on the back for $90 and an aero helmet $80 and you're set.

+1lap: Lightweight Cyclocross Bikes
It's not how fast you go fast, it's how fast you go slow

(This post was edited by jeremyb on Apr 26, 12 9:51)

BMANX

Apr 26, 12 9:53

Post #61 of 74 (1444 views)

Re: Most aero advantage for the $ [jeremyb] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Or Zero Offset and the correct saddle.

I have seen people run shorter stems with aerobars and have a pretty good set up on a road bike with a zero offset post and saddle forward. Have seen the same people win tri's outright with the fastest bike.

I do not think people can make such a broad statement on ST saying a road bike can not be set up well enough to make it work with tri bars. Not saying you are but just replied to the last email.

I think Tom shows that it can be done and if you pay attention to the details it can be done.

I personally say get ride of the road frame, forks and shifters and get a tri frame and the parts required to race well.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Cervelo SLC 5980g/13.18 lbs.

(This post was edited by BMANX on Apr 26, 12 9:56)

odin99

Apr 26, 12 10:05

Post #62 of 74 (1419 views)

Re: Most aero advantage for the $ [Rambler] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

don't forget the machine shop-quality eye protection.

Rambler wrote:

R10C wrote:

Looks like a Scott Drop-In LF with some DuctTape doctoring....just a bit of seat post. I am guessing a Nishiki NFS Alpha or the like.
t
What helmet is that? It looks like it has a really minimal profile. The material seems to have almost a fabric type appearance. Carbon?

The_Mickstar

Apr 26, 12 10:22

Post #63 of 74 (1401 views)

Re: Most aero advantage for the $ [jeremyb] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

jeremyb wrote:

There's a 58cm P2sl that has 2 days left and is only $650 shipped link

Yeah, but that's one of the rare steel ones!

Steve

"If you ain't first, you're last." Ricky Bobby Talladega Nights

dmounts

Apr 26, 12 10:30

Post #64 of 74 (1389 views)

Re: Most aero advantage for the $ [jeremyb] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

What about a non-integrated aerobar?.
Team Every Man Jack
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jeremyb

Apr 26, 12 10:30

Post #65 of 74 (1388 views)

Re: Most aero advantage for the $ [The_Mickstar] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

haha didnt catch that ----- despite the lack of verbiage, seems like a legit auction to me

+1lap: Lightweight Cyclocross Bikes
It's not how fast you go fast, it's how fast you go slow

jeremyb

Apr 26, 12 10:34

Post #66 of 74 (1382 views)

Re: Most aero advantage for the $ [dmounts] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

in my experience, if you're using a full size clip on (Profile T2) you'll need a forward post or as Bmanx suggests a zero offset post with an Adamo saddle to get comfortable.

If you're using a shorty ITU style aero bar you might be able to feel comfortable with the seat slammed forward ---- but then you're forearms are going to hurt like hell because your radius and ulna arent used to supporting your upper body weight.

I have used a Profile T2 on a Cannondale road bike with a zero offset post and was not comfortable ---- way too stretched out.

+1lap: Lightweight Cyclocross Bikes
It's not how fast you go fast, it's how fast you go slow

The_Mickstar

Apr 26, 12 10:34

Post #67 of 74 (1382 views)

Re: Most aero advantage for the $ [jeremyb] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I agree. If I had the money, I'd be tempted to upgrade from my Dual. It's my size.

Steve

"If you ain't first, you're last." Ricky Bobby Talladega Nights

Guddis

Apr 26, 12 10:38

Post #68 of 74 (1376 views)

Re: Most aero advantage for the $ [The_Mickstar] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Swim cap over your road helmet, saves you 0,4mph

valdlaw

Apr 26, 12 12:42

Post #69 of 74 (1333 views)

Re: Most aero advantage for the $ [Tom A.] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Tom A. wrote:

jeremyb wrote:

the slack seat tube angle of a road bike would not work with an integrated aerobar designed for steeper seat tube angles

also it would look stupid

Like I said earlier...that depends on the road bike, and how you put it all together ;-)

Tom that looks sweet! I have a Venge but only becuse Im with a Specialized shop. I see you have the Adamo Road on there. I've recently put one on my ShivTT and I'm tring to set it up so that I'm comfortable. I cant trll form the photo do you have your rails totall level with the ground or do you have them very slightly angled downward? I feel like unless I point the rails slightly downward the prongs jam into my rear. However if you angle it downward it places too much stress on my upper body and feels like Im falling forward. Am I doing something wrong or missing something? Thanks!
Oh and sorry to ask didn't mean to hijack the thread :)

(This post was edited by valdlaw on Apr 26, 12 13:05)

Tom A.

Apr 26, 12 15:01

Post #70 of 74 (1291 views)

Re: Most aero advantage for the $ [valdlaw] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I actually find that "rails level" is a good starting point...I think I'm actually at rails slightly above horizontal right now.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

mfrassica

Apr 27, 12 11:36

Post #71 of 74 (1182 views)

Re: Most aero advantage for the $ [jeremyb] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Could not agree with your statement more. Ya, carbon is cool if you have a money burning a hole in your pocket. However there are a lot of nice used bikes out there that is plenty fast enough. The OP will also tend to have extra money to spend on aero-helmet or wheels...

I bought used myself, P3-SL (just over 1K) and love it. I did have the money to spend if I wanted to, but practically I could not justify the aero savings of say a P4 over a P3-SL. A lot of the wind tunnel data is set as something like 30 mph. Most of us are not at this speed for any appreciable time, aero benefits (between any given bike) will start to decrease (exponentially) as velocity decreases. However, by all means go as aero as possible. $ for $, go used equipment.

vibrolux

Apr 27, 12 11:43

Post #72 of 74 (1171 views)

Re: Most aero advantage for the $ [valdlaw] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Do a search on my username, "vibrolux" and look at the thread where I asked about the Adamo versus the Cobb V-Flow Plus saddles. Some good responses but pay particular attention to Rappster's response.

I had the same problem as you and scrapped the Adamo for the Cobb. With the saddle set to be comfortable on my ass, I felt like I was launching off the front of the bike and my shoulders/upper back hurt after like 1 mile in the aero bars.

Reading some of the responses may help you.

valdlaw

Apr 27, 12 15:48

Post #73 of 74 (1087 views)

Re: Most aero advantage for the $ [vibrolux] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

vibrolux wrote:

Do a search on my username, "vibrolux" and look at the thread where I asked about the Adamo versus the Cobb V-Flow Plus saddles. Some good responses but pay particular attention to Rappster's response

I had the same problem as you and scrapped the Adamo for the Cobb. With the saddle set to be comfortable on my ass, I felt like I was launching off the front of the bike and my shoulders/upper back hurt after like 1 mile in the aero bars.

Reading some of the responses may help you.

Much appreciated.

Tom A.

Apr 29, 12 16:17

Post #74 of 74 (993 views)

Re: Most aero advantage for the $ [DarkSpeedWorks] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

DarkSpeedWorks wrote:

Tom A. wrote:

I don't think that is true...

I happened to have a chance to pull off the rear TT shifter lever for a SRAM setup and took a pic of the "working bits". Those teeth look to be fairly uniform in spacing, no? :-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

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