Interesting, but I can imagine a lot of people getting pinged that aren't genuine drafters.

Very easy problem to fix, double penalty to 10 mins for 70.3 and below, 20 mins for Full. For most other than BOPers its just not worth the risk. 5mins means you can still be competitive. TOs should also have GoPros, perhaps they could ping people retrospectively as well as provide evidence for triathletes querying their draft penalty. I got overtaken by a 10man train in Busselton 70.3 in May and as they overtook me a TO went cruising past giving me a warning. To him it just looked like I was part of the train, I was lucky not to get pinged, but would have been seriously pissed if I had. He got someone else and broke up the train.

Correct. Very easy problem to fix. Dramatically impact the risk/reward ratio such that it's not worth it. Roth this year added a 1km "penalty" lap on the run in addition to the drafting time penalty - the lap of shame.

Roth has had the "lap of shame" for several years. Plus, 80 motos on a two loop course - almost every mile of the course.

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

Easy to fix, just make it legal

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

 

"Interesting, but I can imagine a lot of people getting pinged that aren't genuine drafters. "


Assuming a reasonable competent programmer, a system relying on accurate transponders as described would be far LESS likely to incorrectly give out penalties. (i.e. be sure to not give Garmin the contract! :)

I think the issues is that the system would have to create some specific exceptions or people would get VERY unhappy, such as loosening restrictions at turns, at the transition areas, and on steep hills.

I would support that, and much larger time penalties as well. I would prefer the 1km "lap of shame" like at Roth in addition to the current penalties.

Do you really think that's a good idea? Why?

Because he's a strong runner, and knows it would be to his benefit.

So strong bikes do not want bike drafting. Swimmers do not want wetsuits.

I just get tired of a rule that is basically impossible to enforce, but spin it anyway you want.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Historically it has been very difficult to enforce but a technological solution emerges and you snub it by saying "just make drafting legal" without regard for the obvious safety implications. Help me understand your thought process on this.

Hello GreenPlease and All,

There have been many tech solutions proposed for drafting .... probably most any of them are workable .... but most solutions entail additional expense .... and worth noting ..... a human consideration augers against adopting them .......

There is a device that accurately call balls and strikes ..... banned ........ it was voted down in favor of a real human 'fallible' umpire for baseball ....

Olympic Race Walking officials could accurately call foot faults (for having both feet in the air at the same time) using video camera tech .... banned ... in favor of a foot fault rule that must be visible "to the human eye".

These are examples of temporary victories for humans ....... in a losing war being fought by humans ...... against technology (robots).

https://www.theguardian.com/...tonomous-weapons-war

Excerpt:

"While the suggestion of killer robots conjures images from science fiction such as the Terminator’s T-800 or Robocop’s ED-209, lethal autonomous weapons are already in use. Samsung’s SGR-A1 sentry gun, which is reportedly technically capable of firing autonomously but is disputed whether it is deployed as such, is in use along the South Korean border of the 2.5m-wide Korean Demilitarized Zone.

The fixed-place sentry gun, developed on behalf of the South Korean government, was the first of its kind with an autonomous system capable of performing surveillance, voice-recognition, tracking and firing with mounted machine gun or grenade launcher. But it is not the only autonomous weapon system in development, with prototypes available for land, air and sea combat."

Do you think this proposed ban on lethal autonomous weapons will be successful?

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

I have yet to see anything 100% accurate. I also believe most RD's would never support this since it would piss off too many of their customers. But, I could be wrong.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

And that would make races wayyyy less safe. Cause you know, triathletes are excellent bike handlers.

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blog

1. Do you genuinely think having all races be draft legal would be safe?
2. What do you think would be more accurate: a GPS based system with cm accuracy or refs subjectively judging following distances from the back of a motorcycle?

The camera solution that reads an image placed on the race number adhered to a bike, where cameras are spaced out to detect if riders are within the drafting zone for more than 60sec is a reasonable and affordable solution to explore, and a worthwhile investment in an effort to make the bike leg more of a true individual effort within a head to head race environment.

As for Dave's solution: whether it's his thoughts on crank length, USAT, computrainer or now drafting, I just really haven't been able to find any of his contributions valuable and not because I don't agree with them, but they lack accompanying writing that demonstrates critical thought to support his ideas or opinions.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

Show me data from draft legal races that they are more dangerous than NDL races? Everytime this has been asked, facts can never be provided to support the fear tactics.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

How about a shock collar?

Given that AG level draft legal races are extremely rare, I think that the data you want does not exist.

I'm sure all the age groupers who train only or primarily on trainers will prove to be just as safe as professionals. After all, I never see poor bike handling in races...

There aren't a heap of draft legal races in Western Australia and it only seems to be elite triathletes and top Agers that enter. You have to have a license I think which means a lot of people don't bother. So that means the standard of riding is pretty good. I just shudder to think of local NDL races being changed to a DL race because of the shit standard of bike handling abilities, not just beginners, but people that have been in the game a few years. When I ride in a pack during training, I'm riding with people I know and trust, I don't want to be sitting on the wheel of someone that may or may not know how to ride a bike.

I actually think ppl would more or less self regulate themselves over time. Sure it would take some adaption period, but I don't think there would be all that much carnage for what it is. Close combat racing of course you'll have crashes. You have to accept that, if you go that route.

(Not that I'm saying do it, I just don't think AG DL would cause that many issues).

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Then how can the statement be made there are not safe>\? Just fake news?

Riding on a trainer did not seem to hurt Andy Potts biking skills?

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

There's no f**cking way I'm racing draft legal with some of the spanners from my club and others that I race against. I don't care what the stats are, these people scare me.

Maybe he learned a bit in his years as a professional triathlete doing draft legal triathlons before that??

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...aft%20legal#p6309888

Slowman did a thread on AG DL racing in Mexico (apparently it's huge there). No real issues, no "tons of ppl crashing", seemed to work out well.

You should Try it atleast once before you knock it too much. And for those guys who you think are sketch- 2 pieces of advice- Swim faster and if you get in their group just remove yourself by communicating if you feel unsafe.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Slowman's AG DL take (he hasn't seen an Mexican DL race yet, said he was hoping this fall):


my understanding is it's kind of like a very busy gran fondo meets triathlon.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II