Are you comparing your indoor HR to your outdoor HR? If so, I personally have a hard time hitting my outdoor HR while I am riding indoors.

What are you using for your HR sensor?

Inside/Outside/Bike/Run makes no difference. Cannot get heart rate over 165.

Garmin HR on bike. Same one I have used for a long time.
Polar on runs. Brand new.

Max HR issue same for bike and run?

It took me a while (two years) before i was able to see my max hr on the bike get close to max hr on the run.

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"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz

Same for everything. I could be being chased by a tiger or shot at by a machine gun. HR will NOT go over 165.

Are you sure your max hr is correct? I'm 55 and mine is around 173. I hit 169 this week at the end of a FTP test. I have to be going all out to go over 165.

BTW if you're using a Garmin HR strap it's common to get spikes in rate and these spikes are wrong. I've since replaced with a Wahoo Tickr. Much more reliable.

My max HR dropped dramatically from about age 47 to 49. I was up in the mid to high 180s a few years ago, but recently I cannot get over 170. If I were to hazard a guess, it is just an age thing.

You guys are not listening. I have over 150 races plus 600 training days of data from the last 5 years. I know my numbers. The Max HR number caved by 13% almost over night and I cannot get it to crack 165 no matter what I do.

Just an old race.

http://tpks.ws/OLDKV

Have you tried a different heart rate monitor AND strap?

No medication changes?

If you can put out the same power what are you worried about?

This is what I was going to ask. Some medications and supplements will suppress HR response to exercise. Some, like beta blockers for hypertension, can have a drastic effect on it, while others, such as the omega 3 fatty acids in fish oils, can have a less severe effect. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC3483717/

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____________________________________________
Don Larkin
Reach For More
http://www.reachformore.fit/
USAT Lvl1 Coach, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, BS Exercise Science

Well...you took two years off. Your fitness is bound to drop, that plus aging catching up to you a bit....
But could always pay a visit to the doc..

Max HR has nothing at all to do with fitness. A fat pig can hit his max HR going up a set of stairs. He might die but his max is his max. My ability to operate at say 80%-90% of my max is shortened and is definitely a function of fitness.

To your point on seeing a doctor I did. He had not idea so I went to a cardiologist yesterday. They did a thyroid test which came back irregular and they are retesting tonight. Probably the culprit. After reading on it in the last hour sounds plausible. Hopefully it just requires medication but who knows.

Still open to other plausible explanations.

"Max HR has nothing at all to do with fitness."

are you sure about this? yes, i expect if anything your MHR will decrease with fitness, that is, if your stroke volume increases that might drive down your MHR slightly.

but if you take time off, and then you come back, are you an untrained person can achieve the same MHR as that same person can achieve after 3 or 4 months of training to get into more/less peak shape?

i ask because i don't know your fitness level now. i knew your fitness level then. in 2 weeks i'm 60, and what i noticed is that taking 2yr off at 30 and coming back at 32 is way, way different than this same paradigm at 45 or 50. that's why i'm wondering what your fitness level is now, meaning, can you produce the same power at, say, 145bpm as you could 2yr ago at 145bpm. if in the truth-telling moment the answer is no then i wonder if you might not see 175 or 180 as you get further into the spring.

i'm just spitballing here. you might be right, that a completely untrained person whose activity is going potty during the commercials while watching judge judy would have the same MHR as after he or she drops 30 pounds and gets ultra fit. but i'm not prepared to stipulate to that. are you sure you're right?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I am pretty damn sure. So for what it is worth my fitness level 2 years ago on a scale from 1-10 was a 9.5. I am comparing myself to Cat 2-4 racers aged 40+ in the New York City area. Now I would give myself a 7.5. To reiterate though, while I am 2 years older my max might have decreased 2-3 beats a year dropping it to 180 ish. Not 165. The reason out of shape people don't know their max HR other than they don't care is that for them to find it they would risk killing themselves. So if a fat turd could only walk a 15 minute mile and get his HR to 140 there is no reason to infer that is his max.

I would not rule out age. The medical estimating tools are general and population based. Max HR decline may not be linear-- it could change in steps. Fact is, you are getting on in years and the medical textbooks would estimate your max HR at 164. Maybe taking a couple years off allowed your HR to catch up with the text books, and now you are looking at your new norm.

You could be fatigued and not properly recovered. Maybe your blood volume increased, few hard days in heat could raise your blood volume, it changes stroke volume and you end up with lower HR, but quite the same end power, the only thing that will change is top end sprint, since blood will be diluted it will have less O2 per volume and your top end will suffer. But you will be able to stay for long time at FTP, any recent IV?

maybe too much or not enough viagra :)

At your age you have really high HR anyway, get muscle oxygen sensor do the assessment and see what is happening with you, plus ECG and few other tests and you might find your problem, all the responses over forum as just stub in the dark...

Dan-
Shouldn't be an issue hitting MaxHR in sedentary individuals.
If anything, as you noted, MaxHR may come down with training due to stroke volume increases.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/00365516909080169

OP
I don't typically worry about decreases in MaxHR until they are greater than 10bpm lower than an established normal and sustained for greater than a week.

During your summer escaped, you were normal. Easy riding and you were at 182 which is 4-8 bpm away from an established MHR.
However, the second part is noteworthy.


In my experience significant decreases in MaxHR are related to two things.
1. Carbohydrate availability. Decreased carbohydrate / glycogen stores will lower maximum HR. Have you changed your diet?
2. Changes to the HPA (Hypothalamic, Pituitary, Adrenal) Axis or the thyroid.


Number 1 is easy. Either eat more carbs or understand that this is a consequence of your new lifestyle.
Number 2 is tougher because understanding it is more complex.
a. This is a natural process. Something is going on in your body. You need to figure out what that is and correct it medically.
b. You are doing this to yourself with training. Most people get touchy about this one, but for many many people it's true. They ride themselves into oblivion, start to feel bad, test their thyroid and it's low. They're then happy because they have an answer to their problem, but they never address what the issue was: Their physical activity: Recovery ratio.


I'm not saying that you're B. You might be A. But, the fact that you 1. Took significant time off 2. mention that you have been riding hard and long plus long runs 3. Are back to where you were in short time suggests that at the very least you are training "hard". That means that "B" is at least a possibility. Unfortunately the recovery can be a long process.


Good luck on your journey and update this thread as you learn more so that others can reference this information.

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I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

One of the first interesting responses. The biggest issue I have with your response is I hit 180+ in August and did nothing till late Oct with a 15+ drop in bpm.

I do pop a viagra from time to time. hmm. If you read everything I mentioned later that yesterday I got a thyroid test and heard today it is irregular. Doing test 2 today. That can drop HR apparently. Very bizarre whatever the cause. Guess watching and knowing my Max HR might save my life if the thyroid stuff is serious. Who knows.

Have you mapped HR to power with a ramped protocol?

or

On a treadmill conduct a Bruce protocol or modified Bruce if you don't have the ramp.

You need to see if it is blunted (across the board) or if it is relatively skewed (low ceiling). It will also give insight to peak fitness level to validate your current 7.5 estimate versus previous 9+.

I would be surprised if this is representative of some "normal" aging process or of fitness change with your details.

Your sympathetic response is muted or your parasympathetic is on override; likely the former which is influence somewhat by training and other factors brought to light here e.g. meds...

If you really want answers I would get tested at a reputable clinic with metabolic cart to get more certainty on the numbers and establish a true max test/result.

Please do not do that... How the flip Bruce would know crap about your HR :).... based on this your HR is fine 220-57=163 :) and we both know this is crap, plus you might get heart attack in the process :)

Looks like only Mr. Pickels knows his stuff, and had good suggestion ... few roads to explore. At 57 hormons can flip on the dime...Also, if you are doing any respiratory modifications (changes in breathing patterns etc, masks\altitude toys.) you might be overloading your heart. especially (RV)