Other than the distance there iis not much similarity in the feeling of running an open marathon and an ironman marathon.

In my opinion get an ironman training plan and skip the marathon.

More power to you and I admire your desire but that seems like an awfully tight time-frame for a couple of long distance firsts. I don't know if I would force a marathon at the end of a season that started with a first half marathon and half ironman over the course of 7 months and then turnaround and do an early season full ironman. You're going to want a break both mentally and physically. Just my two cents though, I'm sure others with more experience on here can chime in.

I agree with the previous two posters. Not enough time to effectively train for a marathon and then an IM.
Sure you can do it but you're probably not going to be the very best you can for the IM. Half Marathons are very different from Marathons.

For the sake of argument, if I had an athlete that wanted to do what you are asking about I would build up their run training to their maximum ability. 2 weeks out from the marathon I would have them start backing off, 6 weeks before that I would have them doing 1 to 2 threshold runs a week plus a long run and filler runs. 6 weeks before that I would have them running faster intervals once a week plus a long run and filler runs. 6 weeks before that I would have them running easy with a long run and a mid distance run.

If that athlete couldn't run 45 miles a week without getting hurt and was still hellbent on doing a marathon 3 months before an IM I would drop them.

If your goal for your first Ironman is to finish feeling good (versus busting your guts for an aggressive time goal) I think you would benefit from the confidence and experience of having run a stand-alone marathon a few months before your full IM.

In my view (and I'm sure others will disagree) your first IM race day is a scary thing, and I wouldn't want to go into it never having run more than 20 or so miles. You want to know what it's like to be out there, ten miles from the finish line on tired legs, doing the mental bargaining, and calculating when to give yourself a walk break.

Maybe shoot for a February marathon if you're racing IM in May.

If you're looking for a plan to build the distance with minimal stress and low mileage (which can be a help when you're also training on the swim and bike) check out the training plans in Jeff Galloway's book, Marathon. It's not tailored to triathletes, but it's a 3-run a week plan with a gradual buildup of long-distance runs. It also explains how to use walk breaks to run faster and more comfortably.

You'll probably also bike over-distance before your first IM, and swim more than 2.4 miles. I think it's a good thing to experience what it's like to be on your legs for those 3 to 6 hours of marathon before trying it in a race.

That said, tons of people do their first marathon at their first IM, so you wouldn't be alone if that were your choice. Not something I'd want to try myself, though.

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Sharon McN
@IronCharo
#TeamZoot
Clif Bar Pace Team 2003-2018

Thanks for all the advice.

I used a Hal Higdon plan for my half and it worked well for me.

I think I may have explained my timeline poorly.

Sep 2015 - Finish Half Ironman
Rest for one week
Begin Higdon Marathon plan Week 10 (week 9 is half marathon)
Marathon mid Nov 2015

Full Ironman in May 2016 - A 20 week training plan would begin in Dec 2015

Full ironman goal will be to finish (maybe not DFL).

Does this sound better?

My uninformed way of training for my first iron-distance has also included a marathon.
I am doing my first Iron-distance in September but felt that it was too far away to start specialising in winter, so I did a run season up until 2 weeks ago, now I plan a cycling season up until about the end of July, then I will bring the running back up to scratch again. Swimming is the constant in the background.

I don't really like cycling training in winter, so why not get lots of running in instead? Still cycle and swim a bit, but just to keep them ticking over.

If you are 'just' looking to finish, then I don't see that it can hurt if you really do some serious running training 6 months before your Ironman. Go for it, maybe don't use Hal Higdon though!

What's your marathon goal?

After I ran my first I couldn't walk right for a week and did zero training for 2.5 weeks. My legs were an absolute wreck. And that was with dedicated marathon training and running a ton of miles each week. Trying to jump into a marathon plan at week 9 when you haven't been building the base for the mileage seems to be begging for injury. Week 10 is a 17 mile long run, and the midweek run is 8 miles. That's probably more than your peak running mileage for a 70.3, and you still have 2 more days of runs to factor in.

One way to do it is to use the half-iron training as a springboard to the marathon. Put the run-focused part (i.e. highest consistent weekly running mileage) in the latter part of the buildup to the half-iron. That way, once the half-iron is over, you can switch over to just running and already have all of that momentum, in terms of run training. In fact, it will likely feel like a relief to jettison (or at least minimize) the cycling and swimming for a couple of months.

I got my marathon PR doing that.

I did just about this. My first half first week in October and first full marathon mid December. I went into the marathon with IT issues because I upped the running miles too much and legs didn't have enough running base. I ran well, got a time better than I thought I could, and then couldn't train for 6 weeks because of ITBS and quad tendinitis. For me, my engine was more capable than my legs ability to jump into pure marathon training in the middle of a program.

Be careful when increasing running miles. Fast forward a few years, I had run a few low 80 mile weeks and jumped to 97 one week...had to really go easy a few weeks (elliptical) because it was just too much of an increase. Luckily it was taper time for a 50 so I was okay. So again, even with a base, be careful when increasing running miles.

That being said, I think your plan is doable, but I'd do the full as late in the year as possible and start going a little more run heavy leading up to the half.

Thanks for the tips everyone.

I think I will form one plan to complete the marathon prior to the Ironman and one plan to simply train for the Ironman. I can make a judgment call after the half IM or if the marathon training is pushing me to injury.

Hard part is there are no marathon's in Colorado near me in November.

Oh yeah...no problem go for it. I ran one of my better marathons off ironman training, kind of a nice way to end a season....give yourself a good couple to three weeks to take it easy after.

It can work well. I ran a solid marathon in late October after a half iron man August 1 ish. Your timeframe is a bit tight so don't plan for ambitious time goals but it can work ...

Running a marathon in preparation for an Ironman is usless. Actually harmful for overall training plan because of the stress of running/racing a marathon, focusing mainly on running, time to recover, the mental exhaustion etc.

If you want to do some preparation for an Ironman with some added distance do a long bike on Sat (4hour bike with a 30 min brick) then Sunday do a long run/short bike/short run, Monday recover.

That will test your mind/ability/fitness.

Having training program for half marathon is important to have before joining a big event. It prepares your body and mind to become stronger and durable. Increase your stamina during the run and know the right strategy to be able to reach the finish line. I am also joining a big marathon event next year and I am scheduling my training program for half marathon. This will be my third time joining marathon.