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Managing HR - Bike & Run
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On the pro panel at IMLP, Potts (from a third party reporting) said his run HR average is lower than his bike HR average almost all of the time. Somebody commented on his FB page making the same claim about themselves. I myself have a lower HR bike average, and a steady incline run HR which in the end always comes out higher than the bike. In fact I don't recall a single race or brick since I started with a HR monitor where my run was lower than the bike, and it's a near guarantee I will hit my level 5 max on any run over 5 miles, which I do understand is my own doing via pace and my (though getting better) inability to get real on what I need to do out of T2.

So I found this to be very interesting, and I know there are a lot of moving parts here, but now I have a theory, and I also have questions.

I've been trying really hard to get my bike cadence up. Up to this year, I would typically settle in to a big gear and slow crank away. I also have had a tendency to blow the legs up during the run, though it's been getting better last year and this year, which I think is just experience and not leaving T2 thinking I'm going to run everyone down and keeping some realistic pace goals in mind from the start.

Q 1: Is this normal for you guys, to have a lower HR on the run than you did on the bike? Does this matter to all or just some?

Q 2: Is my heart rate spike on the run a butterfly effect of low cadence in a big gear = using too much energy on the bike = run legs can't support the goals or my run goals are unrealistic = HR goes high mid run and legs give out?

Q 3: Those of you who live by and manage your HR, what attributes to your control on the run in say a 70.3?

Some data from a recent brick:

Bike (2 parts, had a flat):
18.9mi @ .80 IF, 148ft gain, avg 124bpm, cadence 80rpm avg
20.8mi @ .71 IF, 276ft gain, avg 120bpm, cadence 78rpm avg

Run:
8mi, 56ft gain, avg 161bpm w/ max 172. 33% in Z5, 56% in Z4, the rest in Z3.

On this particular day it was a very flat course, we had a little wind, it was around 85 degrees F with a 65% humidity. My max HR is set to 186bpm. I did a really shitty job at getting my cadence up on this bike in particular, other rides of late I've been averaging 90+ which is a huge improvement from where I started.

So is it that I need to improve my cadence into the high 90's and stop cranking the big gear slowly. Naturally my HR goes up here, but I'm using less power from the legs leaving more for the run, therefore the run will go longer at a lower HR before it eventually creeps up.

Trying to wrap my brain around this, looking for help and advice, or just grill me that's cool too. Thanks all

Regards,
J. Smith
Last edited by: jsmith82: Jul 25, 17 10:30
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Re: Managing HR - Bike & Run [jsmith82] [ In reply to ]
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What is your bike training like? Volume? I would work on getting comfortable with a much higher heart rate on the bike. If your max is 186 bpm, then riding comfortably but much harder than the 120s should be a goal.
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Re: Managing HR - Bike & Run [ECamp23] [ In reply to ]
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ECamp23 wrote:
What is your bike training like? Volume? I would work on getting comfortable with a much higher heart rate on the bike. If your max is 186 bpm, then riding comfortably but much harder than the 120s should be a goal.

Volume has been less than impressive this year. Based on my schedule, I usually ride twice a week, three times when I can. Something short and tough on the week day ride, usually exaggerated short efforts or long intervals, generally 1-1.5 hours as a workout. On the weekend I go a little bit longer, 1.5 to 2.5 hours and work on pacing my 70.3 effort of .75-.80%, and I almost always tie a run into it directly. My FTP is currently 215, it has hovered between 215 and 225 for months now. Can't wait for things to calm down so I can get back to a normal schedule, it's been a tough year.

What really sparked my interest in this whole thing was an article from I believe Active, about cadence, comparing it to running up a hill, something like "short quick steps vs. big long steps will get you to the top in the same amount of time but you will save effort with the short steps since long steps require more muscle to facilitate", so a higher cadence vs. lower cadence at a .80% effort would produce fresher legs for the run.

My own efforts and blow ups vs. others stating they have a higher bike HR than run HR, I need to get something under control, just not sure what.

Thanks for the reply

Regards,
J. Smith
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Re: Managing HR - Bike & Run [jsmith82] [ In reply to ]
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jsmith82 wrote:
Q 1: Is this normal for you guys, to have a lower HR on the run than you did on the bike? Does this matter to all or just some?

Certainly not normal for me. Does't even seem possible.
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Re: Managing HR - Bike & Run [jsmith82] [ In reply to ]
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I remember reading some posts on ST about this.

From what I recall most people will have a 15 - 20 bpm lower HR on the bike than the run.

You are not recruiting as many muscles on the bike. So I think it stands to reason your heart won't need to work as hard before muscle endurance becomes the weak link.

Longer term goal is to get it in the 5 - 10 bpm deficit.

My lactate paces are about 10 bpm different now. Max heart rates are still probably closer to 20 bpm different.
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Re: Managing HR - Bike & Run [jsmith82] [ In reply to ]
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jsmith82 wrote:
Q 1: Is this normal for you guys, to have a lower HR on the run than you did on the bike? Does this matter to all or just some?

No, this isn't common. It may be that way for some obviously, but don't think that something is wrong w/ your bike/run b/c you have higher HR on run. That is much more common.

jsmith82 wrote:
Q 2: Is my heart rate spike on the run a butterfly effect of low cadence in a big gear = using too much energy on the bike = run legs can't support the goals or my run goals are unrealistic = HR goes high mid run and legs give out?

It could be. It really depends on what type of biker and runner you are and (as you said) how hard you're pushing yourself in both. Some people are built for high cadence biking and some aren't. You can experiment in training to see what seems to work best for you. If you have a power meter, you can measure and verify what seems to work best for you.

jsmith82 wrote:
Q 3: Those of you who live by and manage your HR, what attributes to your control on the run in say a 70.3?

I go by power on the bike, but I didn't always. However, my HR data hasn't changed much even since the addition of power. I'll ride at around 155bpm and run at about 160bpm for a 70.3. My bike max HR is 183 and run max is around 190 for reference. As far as watching HR though, I do notice that I take quite a while to recover from my swim. Holding consistent power, my HR will drop for at least 30 minutes coming out of the water before it stabilizes. Then on the run, it will start out really low (145ish) and gradually rise throughout the run. I'll typically finish the 70.3 at 165+

Many things can affect your HR and make it fly off the charts. More often than not, I see overexertion and nutrition errors as the main culprits. However, some days are just simply better than others when it comes to HR.

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Re: Managing HR - Bike & Run [jsmith82] [ In reply to ]
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Normally I would say my bike HR is a little lower than my run HR. Although in my last race it was weird (800m swim, 17.5mile bike - almost all uphill, and a 10k run (significant down then uphill) my HR average on all 3 events was within 3bpm of each other.

On a normal day my Swim HR is greater than the Bike, and the Run HR is also greater than the Bike.

BTW, on a side not an HR of 120-125 is usually where my coach wants my EZ Recover Rides.That appears awe-full low when your running HR is 161, but everybody is different.
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