ummm...only if the rest of the pack went 1:15 faster too.

Ouch

Zing!

LOL - we here at ST never let the facts get in the way!!!!

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Screw the wind tunnel...I have a..."GUT FEELING."

I think Macca's bike position is one of the more finely tuned ones in triathlon.

PS-How many P3Cs have finished top-3 for men at Kona? I know less than Cannondale, Kuota, Kestrel, Specialized, Litespeed, etc.

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Portside Athletics Blog

LOL! Nice ...

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

"I don't have any scientific data to back this up..." Yeah. Exactly.

And I bet you think the moon landing took place on a soundstage in Hollywood. Oh, and that George Bush actually won the election in 2000. And global warming is just....

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"ah-hem...the time is yours."

According to the wind tunnel data that Softride has posted on their website (under performance advantages) Macca would be 6:09 faster if he used a FASTT and this is assuming that Normann's Kuota is equal to the P3.
Imagine if he had used clinchers too! Geeze, he would have broken eight hours.
Oh MYLANTA! This thread is silly. 1-2-3-I'm out!

Is Kestrel really in trouble? I saw the drop in Kona ridership. Is this temporary or is it the beginnings of a deathspiral?

I like my Airfoil a lot and I see no reason to switch. Barring some super-super cool technology invention like 20 on the back with no front derailleur I don't plan on buying a new bike for many, many years.

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Swim - Bike - Run the rest is just clothing changes.

The P3C is made to be UCI legal, and the Airfoil is not. I've never seen a direct comparrison between the two, but I think that anyone banking on the Cervelo being faster doesn't know much about aerodynamics.

Chris

Bike doesn't make the rider ....... different people go faster on different machines. And if they have been tunnel tweaked it makes all the difference in the world.

Also remember, a position is only aerodynamically efficient if you can hold it the entire time.

(And suckin' wheels doesn't hurt times much either .....)

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Rick, "Retired" hobbyist athlete
Trying to come back slowly from acute A-Fib

Kestrel has taken a big hit for a number of reasons including (but not limited to):

1) their bonehead mistake of discontinuing the KM40 prior to having bonafide production of the Airfoil Pro. They missed an entire season of selling few (if any) bikes. Unbelievable business blunder which they are still trying to recover
2) Loss of "exotic-ness". Hey, let's face it, they aren't the only carbon bike maker any more, and aren't even the "steepest" (in this case read: tri specific) carbon frame. They are an also ran in a world of many carbon bikes.
3) Small market segment - their road bikes have far less industry visibility than other carbon brands, which somewhat secludes them to the tri market, where again, they are no longer unique.
4) Lack of innovation - they continue to rest their laurels on what they did 20 years ago. I've seen plenty of good "engineering" companies brag about the technology they invented, patented, etc...right up to the days they closed their doors because they refused to listen to what customers wanted. Kestrel needs a new addition, and then needs to brag about it :-)

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Craig Preston - President / Preston Presentations
Saving the world with more professional, powerful, and persuasive presentations - one audience at a time.

simply because cervelo dosnt sponsor top end pro triathlon other the rugter beke this year...all the other company are paying big$$$ for top athlete to get on the podiumm.....cervelo pay $$$$ to sponsor all ironman NA event and get a different kind of exposure...

it as nothing to do with the bike.....it s buisness...

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

I know, I was just making a joke, I forgot the ";-)"

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Portside Athletics Blog

well...it wasn't FUNNY!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

Huffy, GT, Centurion, Schwinn, and Raleigh have WON more races than all those makers combined.

But they weren't carbon fiber...or aerodynamic...IMPOSSIBLE!!!

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Portside Athletics Blog

You mean Yamagucci right? (Huffy)

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

what? wasn't Mark Allen's Huffy the type you can get at Wal-Mart?

I think Kestrel have lost the plot a bit, and their R&D department has been on holiday for a few years (at least). Bit of a shame really - they were really cutting edge. Aerodynamics aside, they are quite flexi compared to the competition, and they don't appear to be able to fix minor disign hiccups that are irritating! Like the rear drop-out (can't take the rear wheel out without taking the skewer out of the wheel on the talons) and I have nevre seen a bike that gathers and hold so much water in the frame! If they want to get into the road market, they better sweep the cobwebs out of the design department! Their forks use to be the best you could get, and I don't think the design has changed in a decade - now they don't even rate...

I disagree: just because you eliminate a frame member (or three) doesn't necessarily mean that the package is more aerodynamic. As an engineer friend of mine (who used to work for Hooker) once put it, you can move the material around all you want, but due to strength/stiffness requirements this approach doesn't necessarily dramatically reduce the size of the hole you punch in the air...

I don't know about that, but I believe that someone has posted results from John Cobb's testing which showed that the Hooker was still the most aero frame, followed by the Softride then followed by the KM40 and the P3 was behind that. I don't know if that means that the Airfoil Pro is more aero than the P3C, but you can be sure that they're pretty close.

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http://irondad06.blogspot.com/

http://irondad.blogspot.com/

Drag at 30 mph and 0 deg yaw, measured in the TAMU wind tunnel w/o a rider aboard, no pedals, and cranks horizontal:

Hooker Elite: 1.40*
Cervelo P2: 1.55
Softride Rocketwing: 1.59
Cervelo Eyre: 1.7
Lightspeed Blade: 1.95
Kestrel KM40: 1.95
Quintana Roo Kilo Private Reserve: 1.99
Javelin Trilite: 2.11

All frames were essentially the same size, and with the exception of the Hooker were fitted with comparable standard componentry.

*On another occasion, my bike was measured as generating 1.55 lbs of drag, but that was with cranks vertical and Look-style Shimano pedals hanging in the wind.

since when has there been any frame design that "dramatically reduced the size of the hole you punch in the air" ? other than recumbent/HPV designs, we're down to the crumbs now.