What is your max HR, or the one at say a 1 hour race? Really hard(impossible) to answer your question unless we know what your particular HR is during a certain load.

Not looking for a zone answer; "MAF" as in Maffetone Method. Not working off a max or an LT. Different method.
-thanks though

---

- the Lone Wolf

You missed my point. What if your max HR is only 145, then the one his generic formula spits out will have you running 400m pace for your 10 mile runs. Or if you have a max of 215, then you will only be walking fast in your workouts. It matters what you do personally. Now maybe you are right in the middle where the generic formula works, then no problem. Just be nice to know that before you go planning a whole seasons program on it.

I used the MAF number as the top end of my MAF range, but I was adding 10 and not 5. All but a select few intervals were done under the MAF number (136 for you) and those were the max effort intervals. The bulk of my training was actually done with a top-end HR that was about 5 beats lower than my MAF, as a race got closer, I upped that to my MAF number to get some race specificity (long-course racing).

Thanks - the formula works for me. My max is about 170, so the MAF method works for me. I am not a freak athlete, unfortunately, just an old guy trying to go faster. I am not deviating from the MAF method - it works for me and keeps me healthy. And I use intervals using MAF, but as prescribed in the book.

thanks -

---

- the Lone Wolf

Thanks....this is the kind of input I am looking for. Yeah I am training for another 140.6, so trying to get as many MAF workouts in as possible this summer. I appreciate your time to reply.

---

- the Lone Wolf

No problem, just wanted to point out that it is not a method, just a generic formula. A lot of people read these threads who are outliers on HR, and they might get the wrong idea if they decide to go out one day and try this formula.

His method is really training in particular zones, you just have to know which one you are in to follow his teachings. And i would guess that more than 1/2 of all athletes would fall afoul with that formula, so not freaks at all.

I used MAF with great success throughout the 90's was a great way for me to reign in my running injury lack of self control too. I so loved to go hard all the time, but this made me pull the reigns back and stop overdoing it. Certainly there was time for that b/c speed work still matters but it made me build my engine first. I always opted for the lower HR's b/c I wanted to make sure I erred into that aerobic zone on a daily basis. Now when it was time for speed work the restraints were off! I actually only glanced at HR during speed work to see what it was, not as a governor per se. In the end when I went to this for bike and run training my results took a nice steady trajectory where I had been an injury train wreck. Hope it works for ya!

The range should be MAF-10 to MAF. Remember, the first letter in MAF stands for Maximum. Your calculated MAF HR should be the top of your range if you are going to base build using Maffetones Method. You've already adjusted for successfully running for awhile uninjured so you shouldn't add more to the top.

yeah, that makes sense.... (M stands for maximum). MAF trng just takes a lot of discipline and I trained literally for decades using the 'tear and repair' methodology which Freil has refined and sold millions of books describing in better detail.
Thanks to all who replied and if other MAF users want to chime in, I am all 'ears'.
- Just an old guy trying to hang on a few more years.

---

- the Lone Wolf

Its very humbling. I successfully MAF trained for a couple years, then like you, I switched to a more conventional training regime only to find myself injured all the time and losing the fitness I worked so hard to gain. I'm back to MAFfing and its really, really hard to slow it down when the Garmin HR alarm starts squawking at me, but I do feel better physically when I slow it down. Hopefully I can start adding distance to my weekly run training and build up the base again.

Listening to Dr. Maffetone on Endurance Planet recently, it sounds like the range should be +/-5 of your MAF target. For me, it's pretty close to my Zone 2 from Friel's books.

---

Boiler Up!

Thanks all who gave their 2 cents....I know we are in the minority because MAF training is not 'sexy' or mainstream. I will go with +/- 5 for this summer and do the 'intervals' as Dr. Phil describes (they worked last year). My work here is done.

For what it's worth - I rode my IM distance bike leg at 18.2 mph after MAF trng. The year prior, during my half IM distance bike leg, I rode 17.9 mph if memory serves correctly. Also there is so much more less fatigue/injury.

"It's simple and kinda like nova-cane - give it time, it'll work." - Coach Boone from Remember The Titans.

---

- the Lone Wolf

I think MAF is a great way to manage pace to allow for more frequent run training and volume. I do think you are doing yourself a bit of a disservice by using the formula to establish you MAF. You should look to do done real world race or tone trail testing to get a better handle on your threshold HR numbers.

---

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

If you go with your threshold HR, you are not MAF training, you are setting up HR zones and training by them which is fine for most people.

MAF HR is found by using the formula that Dr. Phil Maffetone established through his study and work with athletes.

You're close but not quite correct, at least according to his books and website. The +/- 5 beats is used to set your upper limit as described here from his website:

To find your maximum aerobic training heart rate, there are two important steps.

1. Subtract your age from 180.
2. Modify this number by selecting among the following categories the one that best matches your fitness and health profile:

a) If you have or are recovering from a major illness (heart disease, any operation or hospital stay, etc.) or are on any regular medication, subtract an additional 10.
b) If you are injured, have regressed in training or competition, get more than two colds or bouts of flu per year, have allergies or asthma, or if you have been inconsistent or are just getting back into training, subtract an additional 5.
c) If you have been training consistently (at least four times weekly) for up to two years without any of the problems just mentioned, keep the number (180–age) the same
d) If you have been training for more than two years without any of the problems listed above, and have made progress in competition without injury, add 5

Once you have calculated your MAF HR using the basic formula, you adjust according to a) - d) to set the MAF. From there your training zone should be MAF (maximum HR) to MAF minus 10 (Lower limit of HR)

I'm going to jump on the bandwagon and say you're not doing MAF correctly. If you're far out from your race just do your normal MAF and you will see gains in your aerobic base. I only started adding intensity 18 weeks out from my A race and felt immediate MAF gains. Just be patient and realize you're training to race not racing to train. I'm sure many people on this thread train much slower than others in perspective running and cycling groups only to find their training paid off and beat them come racetime.

This is a beneficial piece of wisdom.

Since we are a several weeks past the OP I want to chime in on where todd13 and I are at during training. I have been training with todd13 this season using the MAF method to the best of our ability and understanding. I've searched through several forums and threads and I think the biggest negativity towards this approach is the slowness that is emphasized by Dr. Phil. But there are so many other things that he emphasizes as well such as strength training (not going going to the gym and working on your bench), diet, and let's not forget about REST.

I have been coached, followed multiple training plans for 70.3s and a 140.6. Training with a lower heart rate (using the 180 numbers) has allowed me to train longer, more efficiently, and feel great when I am done. In years past if I rode 80+ and ran after that in mid July I would be on the couch the rest of the day. Now I can do those things and feel great working in the yard or being physically active the rest of the week.

Dr. Phil as stressed on multiple occasions that the 180 formula is not the perfect indicator for every individual, it is a generic number based on quantitative research that can be used to mass produce a training method. I feel great about not "dropping the hammer" on the last 10-15 miles of a ride to show everyone else that I've been putting in time on the computrainer. For this reason, we cannot train with certain groups anymore because we have a different focus. There is a great difference in what we can do and what we need to do. I will never be the fastest - and I'm okay with that realization.

I don't see diet and rest being mentioned with those who are opposed to the MAF approach. Many (not all) who I train with that are opposed are also addicted to carbs, gu packs, and solid foods during their long training. I thoroughly enjoy the ability to not consume solids during a 5 hour brick. They also complain of muscle soreness, fatigue, and injury. If your body says "no" the training plan should also say "no". At the end of the day my goals are to train consistent, keep away from processed sugar, and rest as much as possible. Resting is hard for a Type A. We absolutely have training flaws that will be polished over time. This is a process.

"The key is doing what we need to do vs. what we want to do." -that's it in a nutshell (work + rest + clean diet = training ) I love dropping the hammer on people or doing a long TT to show strength, but then why void a great workout that I invested a night of rest and 2 days of clean eating? Dumb....when I invest hundreds of $ and hours in a single race at the end of the summer. Validation: got a podium finish last year.

Do pros swim at maf during ironman races? I was older when started swimming and it just appears to me that master swimmers seem to swim faster than maf though if they learned young maybe they are swimming totally aerobic. Seems like later in life triathletes get sucked into swimming faster than they should which could undermine their mag bike and run training if they jump into a masters program. Any thoughts on Maf swimming? And for grins do iTu pros do tons of training at maf?

does this calculation apply to heart rate when running and biking? Or would you add say 10% for biking?

---

"one eye doubles my eyesight, so things don't look half bad" John Hiatt

Maffetone says to use your MAF for running and cycling. Typically your HR for cycling is lower (+/- 10 beats) then when running because cycling isn't load bearing like running is.

Funny you should ask this as I was going to ask just the opposite.

I respond well to MAF run training and like it. Cycling....well, MAF as it turns out is right at my FTP per Trainrroad. As such I have had a hard time applying it to riding.

I did the masters swim class for a bit, but now I write my workouts and get a lot more out of it. Yeah, I was trng more aerobically than I wanted. My overall distance and pacing wasn't really getting better beyond 2000-2500m. This makes sense b/c they all leave about then. Now I swim some intervals (above MAF) on Tu with ample rest between, on Thu I swim longer sets at IM pace and don't get out of the pool until I get 3200-3800m. Drills and light conditioniong on Sunday for 8000-10,000 m/week. I am 49 if that helps - not a great swimmer, but do ok.

---

- the Lone Wolf