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Lower your saddle to become awesome...
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My cycle coach has dropped my saddle about 3 inches from my previous Retul fit height!

Apparently dropping the saddle:
- increases glute activation (using these big muscles helps to sustain power for longer)
- minimizes calf use (saving these small muscles for the run)
- helps to eliminate dead spots in the pedal stroke (especially at bottom dead center)

Everywhere I go I look at saddle height now... some pros seem to have a pretty decent leg bend at the bottom of the stroke others not so much...

Thoughts...
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Re: Lower your saddle to become awesome... [rob0106] [ In reply to ]
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My thoughts are 3 INCHES!!!

How high was it?

If I lowered my saddle 3 inches I'd feel like I was squatting.

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Re: Lower your saddle to become awesome... [rob0106] [ In reply to ]
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I would say, go and do a squat with weight.

Where do you find it easiest, at the bottom of your squat, or at the top close to when you are back upright.

Extrapolate from there.....

Trek Speed Concept 9.9
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Re: Lower your saddle to become awesome... [macandbumble] [ In reply to ]
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At the top. Leverage.
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Re: Lower your saddle to become awesome... [minimalist] [ In reply to ]
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Either your coach or your retul fit are horribly wrong, or possibly both. I cannot fathom moving my saddle height by 3 inches and not having a problem, any more than 3mm and I can notice the difference.
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Re: Lower your saddle to become awesome... [rob0106] [ In reply to ]
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Question: how tall are you?

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Re: Lower your saddle to become awesome... [macandbumble] [ In reply to ]
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macandbumble wrote:
I would say, go and do a squat with weight.

Where do you find it easiest, at the bottom of your squat, or at the top close to when you are back upright.

Extrapolate from there.....

That is probably not the best analogy, but I know what you are getting at. At the top of the squat, you already have the momentum from the bottom of the squat so it "feels easier" but you are not accelerating the weight from zero. F = mxa. At the top of the squat, the only acceleration is fighting the component of gravity. At the bottom, you're fighting gravity, plus adding acceleration to get the weight moving. I think we can agree that when the knee is at 90 degrees it is not in a biomechanically advantageous angle for applying force, but somewhere in between that and being locked at vertical is optimal (the 3/4 squat view of the world). Personally after using a powermeter, I dropped my saddle height by almost 2 cm and watched my power go up. Before I had a powermeter, the lower positions 'felt harder' and of course they were simply because my power was higher and i was doing more work. The higher positions felt easier because I was just riding at lower power (go figure).

If you looked at pictures of Jurgen Zack riding back in the day, while not the most aero position due to his back issues, if you looked at his leg extension he had a relatively low position compared to other peers.

I could drop my saddle another 1.5 cm and see no drop in power. It might affect other aspects of riding (aerodynamics since it will close my hip angle), but power will be fine. I have tried the experiment on gym bikes that have power and typically those stupid bikes have zero fore-aft adjust-ability and vertical adjustment is in increments of 3/4 of an inch...you just end up with a position that is too high or "too low". As an experiment given there is no aero penalty I have tried going 2 notches too low and seen zero impact on power output on the watts that those lifecycle machines show.
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Re: Lower your saddle to become awesome... [nickag] [ In reply to ]
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I'm going to go out on a limb and assume they confused inches and cm until the OP returns and says otherwise.
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Re: Lower your saddle to become awesome... [rob0106] [ In reply to ]
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Could be I have to be honest the 'pro bike fit' industry never ceases to disappoint me it's incredible to see the product some of these clowns deliver. Just remember when you see such and such certification in a window of a shop......you now what they call the person who graduates last in their class in med school? Doctor. Just like the one who is the best in their field. It's only a title. Whatever the case I'd not be afraid to post a video and let some of the outstanding folks here on ST who truly do know their craft take a peek. Good luck!
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Re: Lower your saddle to become awesome... [rob0106] [ In reply to ]
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your coach is right, dropping the saddle does all those things. but only if the saddle is too tall to begin with. retul's range for saddle height is appropriate, so, if you're smack in that range then your saddle was already lowered to achieve the things your coach lists.

but i have the same trouble with F.I.S.T. fitters that retul has with retul fitters: i can't control the bad acts committed in the field in spite of the training that i provide.

there is no way for us on the forum to know whether your saddle is too high or too low absent your putting your bike on a trainer, somebody videos you riding, and you post it here.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Lower your saddle to become awesome... [rob0106] [ In reply to ]
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rob0106 wrote:
Everywhere I go I look at saddle height now... some pros seem to have a pretty decent leg bend at the bottom of the stroke others not so much...

Thoughts...

This should tell you something, that it is an aerobic sport and you won't get more power by playing around with subtle changes in muscle activation normally. Seat heights vary a lot because people have different preferences and performance wise it usually doesn't matter much.

So, if it feels better lower, great. Slightly more aero that way too, but you gotta bring your bars down 3 inches too now =)



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Lower your saddle to become awesome... [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
rob0106 wrote:

Everywhere I go I look at saddle height now... some pros seem to have a pretty decent leg bend at the bottom of the stroke others not so much...

Thoughts...


This should tell you something, that it is an aerobic sport and you won't get more power by playing around with subtle changes in muscle activation normally. Seat heights vary a lot because people have different preferences and performance wise it usually doesn't matter much.

So, if it feels better lower, great. Slightly more aero that way too, but you gotta bring your bars down 3 inches too now =)

.....which would collapse the hip angle substantially (go 3 inches lower and lower bars 3 inches)....likely making the power gains non sustainable!!! See my post above about mucking around with saddle heights on gym lifecycle when one is sitting bolt upright....no impact on power even though this still does close the hips a bit...but when torso is close to parallel to ground, going low has hip angle closure limitations, so then you have to go lower and more forward and even then that becomes problematic.
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Re: Lower your saddle to become awesome... [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Going fast is hard work

devashish_paul wrote:
.....which would collapse the hip angle substantially (go 3 inches lower and lower bars 3 inches)....likely making the power gains non sustainable!!! See my post above about mucking around with saddle heights on gym lifecycle when one is sitting bolt upright....no impact on power even though this still does close the hips a bit...but when torso is close to parallel to ground, going low has hip angle closure limitations, so then you have to go lower and more forward and even then that becomes problematic.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Lower your saddle to become awesome... [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
Going fast is hard work

devashish_paul wrote:

.....which would collapse the hip angle substantially (go 3 inches lower and lower bars 3 inches)....likely making the power gains non sustainable!!! See my post above about mucking around with saddle heights on gym lifecycle when one is sitting bolt upright....no impact on power even though this still does close the hips a bit...but when torso is close to parallel to ground, going low has hip angle closure limitations, so then you have to go lower and more forward and even then that becomes problematic.

....well there is no free speed. Even if you want to buy a Zipp disc, you need to work hard elsewhere to free up the $$$....or even if you borrow one, you worked to get the relationships to do the borrowing....there is work on all fronts....physical or intellectual or personal level!
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Re: Lower your saddle to become awesome... [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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If I lowered my saddle 3" it would literally be sitting on the frame!

Hook Em' Horns
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Re: Lower your saddle to become awesome... [broncotw] [ In reply to ]
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Your frame must be at least one size too big, then. With only 3" of post can you even carry a saddle bag or anything?
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Re: Lower your saddle to become awesome... [rob0106] [ In reply to ]
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I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around 3 inches. Assuming that you don't mean centimeters and that you are less than 9 feet tall, I'd be interested in seeing a before and after picture.
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Re: Lower your saddle to become awesome... [rob0106] [ In reply to ]
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Got to be an exaggeration, how could a fit be so far out to begin with? How are your toes/feet to ground now? do you straddle the bike with flat feet on the road? (If you have to balance with toes now, then 3in higher, you would not have been able to straddle the bike with both toes on the road)

I adjust my saddle height by feel, but when measured I am within mm across all bikes. However the race bike I may drop a few mm more because of the slammed bars.

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Re: Lower your saddle to become awesome... [T-wrecks] [ In reply to ]
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T-wrecks wrote:
Your frame must be at least one size too big, then. With only 3" of post can you even carry a saddle bag or anything?

Old school frames and fit would yield a "fistful of seatpost" showing on horizontal top tube. 3" for a fist is not unreasonable for skinny kids.

Suffer Well.
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Re: Lower your saddle to become awesome... [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:


This should tell you something, that it is an aerobic sport and you won't get more power by playing around with subtle changes in muscle activation normally. Seat heights vary a lot because people have different preferences and performance wise it usually doesn't matter much.

So, if it feels better lower, great. Slightly more aero that way too, but you gotta bring your bars down 3 inches too now =)


Part of the "aerobic sport" is that some muscles are naturally better adapted to endurance (posterior chain for holding standing position) eg. having higher percentage of slow twitch fibers. Seat position has impact on cycling efficiency.
Last edited by: Frost: Apr 20, 15 9:11
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Re: Lower your saddle to become awesome... [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
your coach is right, dropping the saddle does all those things. but only if the saddle is too tall to begin with. retul's range for saddle height is appropriate, so, if you're smack in that range then your saddle was already lowered to achieve the things your coach lists.

but i have the same trouble with F.I.S.T. fitters that retul has with retul fitters: i can't control the bad acts committed in the field in spite of the training that i provide.

there is no way for us on the forum to know whether your saddle is too high or too low absent your putting your bike on a trainer, somebody videos you riding, and you post it here.

x2

"Who cares if you're in pain...no one else does" - Ryan Lochte
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Re: Lower your saddle to become awesome... [trIInfected] [ In reply to ]
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Retul put me at 83cm saddel height on my TT bike and it was to high, my toes pointed alot, the saddle was jamming into me and the weight on shoulders were to much

it was major steep and I think i'm best at a very very slack position

My saddle heights are between 79.5 and 80.5 im still experimenting

my inseam is 90cm
Last edited by: SamYO: Apr 20, 15 9:40
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Post deleted by sulrd [ In reply to ]
Last edited by: sulrd: Apr 20, 15 9:43
Re: Lower your saddle to become awesome... [SamYO] [ In reply to ]
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remember:
retul is a tool that measures things
it does not decide what those measurements should be.
your fitter decides that.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Lower your saddle to become awesome... [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Great quote!


jackmott wrote:
Going fast is hard work
Last edited by: sulrd: Apr 20, 15 9:43
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