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Looks Like Swisside Is Getting Into The Field Testing Game Too
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Also, the Dimond bike at the end of the video features a cockpit I'm unfamiliar with.


WTB: TriRig Omega SV (not x). PM me if you have one :)
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Re: Looks Like Swisside Is Getting Into The Field Testing Game Too [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting. They’ve had versions of that at shows for a while now.

Making aero easier at Red is Faster
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Re: Looks Like Swisside Is Getting Into The Field Testing Game Too [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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Really, really want someone to just sell me one of these. Pretty pretty please.
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Re: Looks Like Swisside Is Getting Into The Field Testing Game Too [chicanery] [ In reply to ]
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chicanery wrote:
Really, really want someone to just sell me one of these. Pretty pretty please.


Well...as someone who's had one of these types of devices for a while (Aerostick), I have to say that what will "make or break" any of these products is how the data is transmitted off of the device AND software being available to take advantage of the data. Right now, for me it's a bit of a PITA, which discourages me somewhat from playing around with it.

That said, it's interesting that the SwissSide unit has 2 pitots, one that appears to be just for 0 yaw pressure, and the top "split" one for yaw angle determination. That's something the Aerostick actually has on one unit (i.e. 3 ports on one "tip"). It appears that the Argon unit only has a single port, and thus just no yaw measurement.

I also think the location of these devices may cause some inaccuracies, unless they are calibrated after mounting. That's because they both appear to end up near the "stagnation bubble" of the rider, and thus will "under read" the actual apparent wind speed. That can be calibrated out just by going out and measuring apparent wind speed vs. wheel speed on a zero wind day. Even with the tip of my Aerostick mounted such that it's basically aligned with the leading edge of my wheel, I still find that only reads ~96% of ground speed. For example, from some of my early "playing around"...



edit: BTW, the spread in that data shown above is most likely because it WASN'T a zero wind day, and I was doing straight back-and-forth runs to try to get a feel for the calibration.



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Last edited by: Tom A.: Oct 13, 17 15:24
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Re: Looks Like Swisside Is Getting Into The Field Testing Game Too [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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...and that is why AndyF, genius that he is, should have schlep'd one of those over to me as a beta tester.

I've tried to throw money at him multiple times. I've tried to throw money at pretty much anyone who has a usable device, but no fly so far.

I have the necessary skills required to utilize this tool, and write any software necessary to make it useful real-time as well as after-the-fact.

I also have all of the fast bikes, and weak legs, making aero optimization a huge boon for me personally.
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Re: Looks Like Swisside Is Getting Into The Field Testing Game Too [chicanery] [ In reply to ]
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Garmin will have a solution hopefully within the next 6 months.

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Re: Looks Like Swisside Is Getting Into The Field Testing Game Too [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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It would be a lot faster if they would just bloody hire me to work on it.

I called up the HR lady in Salem back when Garmin first bought the AlphaMantis tech to see if there was any way on to that team, but the work isn't going to be done here, and they weren't interested in remote engineers. Sad panda.

That said, Vector 3 and whatever comes of this product are in my future.
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Re: Looks Like Swisside Is Getting Into The Field Testing Game Too [chicanery] [ In reply to ]
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Well they needed the help! Garmin hardware is exceptional. Their software is not. This device will probably be much of the same.
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Re: Looks Like Swisside Is Getting Into The Field Testing Game Too [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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Dilbert wrote:
Well they needed the help! Garmin hardware is exceptional. Their software is not. This device will probably be much of the same.

No kidding! It irritates me no end to be out running with a Garmin watch and see errors that indicate a failure to understand such basics as speed = distance/time, failure to properly account for GPS signal loss, and the like.

Their UI design people are also sub par. For instance, to calibrate a PM on a Garmin 1000 or 520 you navigate to a menu item for "Calibrate", which brings you to another page with only 1 option - "Calibrate". Nothing will happen until you hit another additional button to "Calibrate". A fundamental principal of UI design is to not make the user perform multiple actions to perform one function when they are not necessary. You see this sort of thing lot with their hardware, which is good.
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Re: Looks Like Swisside Is Getting Into The Field Testing Game Too [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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The stagnation issue is real. And it can change too, with rider position changes in particular. Even a 2.5% error is going to swamp CdA changes.

And I agree that the UX is going to make or break these products. I still need convincing about real-time displays though.

Making aero easier at Red is Faster
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Re: Looks Like Swisside Is Getting Into The Field Testing Game Too [SkippyKitten] [ In reply to ]
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SkippyKitten wrote:
The stagnation issue is real. And it can change too, with rider position changes in particular. Even a 2.5% error is going to swamp CdA changes.

And I agree that the UX is going to make or break these products. I still need convincing about real-time displays though.


Yeah...my experience long ago with the "real time CdA" display on an iAero (coupled with a Quarq) had me thinking it was "for entertainment purposes only" ;-)

edit: And yes, that's one of the sticky points of those types of "close-in" probes...they'll be more sensitive to the apparent wind speed vs. ground speed calibration changes as the static pressure at that point changes with positions.



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Last edited by: Tom A.: Oct 13, 17 15:23
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Re: Looks Like Swisside Is Getting Into The Field Testing Game Too [SkippyKitten] [ In reply to ]
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One thing I suspect has been underestimated is the importance of mounts for these devices. I fiddle with my arm position quite a bit and through quite a range and, as such, I'd likely need to calibrate after every run/change. That would get old quick.

WTB: TriRig Omega SV (not x). PM me if you have one :)
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Re: Looks Like Swisside Is Getting Into The Field Testing Game Too [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
One thing I suspect has been underestimated is the importance of mounts for these devices. I fiddle with my arm position quite a bit and through quite a range and, as such, I'd likely need to calibrate after every run/change. That would get old quick.

I've got mine set up now to mount using a GoPro style interface...lots of options with that, including mounting to the bottom of a K-Edge Garmin mount. The mount I 3D printed for the Aerostick also has pretty easy multi-axis adjustments.

What you mention though is another argument for getting the tip as far out in front as possible...



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Looks Like Swisside Is Getting Into The Field Testing Game Too [chicanery] [ In reply to ]
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chicanery wrote:
...and that is why AndyF, genius that he is, should have schlep'd one of those over to me as a beta tester.

I've tried to throw money at him multiple times. I've tried to throw money at pretty much anyone who has a usable device, but no fly so far.

I have the necessary skills required to utilize this tool, and write any software necessary to make it useful real-time as well as after-the-fact.

I also have all of the fast bikes, and weak legs, making aero optimization a huge boon for me personally.

I don't recall anything being thrown my way ;-)



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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