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Long hill repeats good for time trial training?
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I'll be focusing on time trials/road races this year (no tris), and I'd be interested to hear what everyone's thoughts are on using long hill climbs on a road bike (10-15 min intervals climbing on an HC/Cat 1/2/3 climb) for time trial specific training.

My thought is that on climbs of that length/grade, it's much easier for me to put out consistent watts with no coasting/breaks. I would think this would be ideal for tt training, since it's consistent power (no surges in power and/or coasting), and the steep grade means there's no real limit to the number of watts I could put out before I spin out the cranks. I can put out plenty of watts on flat ground, but I often find it's much harder to consistently put out those watts on the flats because of downhill sections and/or the general tendency to coast.

I know that on climbs, you're not really in a tt position if using a road bike (and you probably don't want to do climbs of that length/grade in a tt position anyways), so you're not doing yourself much good by climbing hills if the tt position is something you need to practice. That being said, I would still imagine that there would be plenty of gains to be had for tt fitness by doing this type of training.

Thoughts?
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Re: Long hill repeats good for time trial training? [jhoj] [ In reply to ]
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I do not have a good answer, but I have a problem that may be relevant. I have a hell of a time putting out high power on the flats. During climbs I can put out 20-25 higher watts for sustained periods (up to an hour) then I can on the flat.

I think this has to do with my racing history, I race MTB for years. I am used to pushing against resistance, I am not good at creating power on flat roads. Seems to be a specificity issue. I would be worried that the training effect you get from hill focus may leave you with a similar problem.
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Re: Long hill repeats good for time trial training? [jhoj] [ In reply to ]
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So, in the long term, this approach is fine. It is a safer way to do intervals and will increase your aerobic fitness which will make you faster.

However at some point when as you get closer to race day you might want to focus on doing some workouts on the TT bike, on TT like roads. You have trouble being consistent with your power output on flat ground. That is a problem, you need to master that. When you do the TT you don't want to be coasting!

With experience you will learn how much time needs to be on the TT bike to be comfortable and powerful on it. For some people they may need to ride it nearly every day for a while. Some people can just hop on a week or two before events and do a few rides on it and are good to go.


jhoj wrote:
I'll be focusing on time trials/road races this year (no tris), and I'd be interested to hear what everyone's thoughts are on using long hill climbs on a road bike (10-15 min intervals climbing on an HC/Cat 1/2/3 climb) for time trial specific training.

My thought is that on climbs of that length/grade, it's much easier for me to put out consistent watts with no coasting/breaks. I would think this would be ideal for tt training, since it's consistent power (no surges in power and/or coasting), and the steep grade means there's no real limit to the number of watts I could put out before I spin out the cranks. I can put out plenty of watts on flat ground, but I often find it's much harder to consistently put out those watts on the flats because of downhill sections and/or the general tendency to coast.

I know that on climbs, you're not really in a tt position if using a road bike (and you probably don't want to do climbs of that length/grade in a tt position anyways), so you're not doing yourself much good by climbing hills if the tt position is something you need to practice. That being said, I would still imagine that there would be plenty of gains to be had for tt fitness by doing this type of training.

Thoughts?



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Long hill repeats good for time trial training? [jhoj] [ In reply to ]
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probably fine, but you could get the same work on a trainer. the benefit of a hill is that you can't coast, you are pedaling against a constant resistance the entire time.
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Re: Long hill repeats good for time trial training? [jhoj] [ In reply to ]
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had a 70.3 a few months ago. trained the bike exclusively in hill repeats, hard efforts, long and short ones. no TT training.
the race was a disaster because of my body not being used to put that same power in flat with 95rpm and TT position.
don't rely solely on climbs..!! add indoor and TT on road
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Re: Long hill repeats good for time trial training? [Clempson] [ In reply to ]
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I'll occasionally do trainer rides, and I agree that it's an excellent way to train. I know a lot of people are just fine with the indoor trainer for every workout, but I would much rather be outside for my workouts if I can help it.
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Re: Long hill repeats good for time trial training? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Good points. I've found, however, that when it comes to race-day, I'm a lot better at being consistent with my power output (no coasting), especially for shorter distance races. Maybe it's the race-day mentality, or maybe it's just a general lack of will on my part during training :)

I figured if I threw in a couple long hill climb workouts here or there, not only would it mix up my training, but it would also produce fitness gains necessary for a solid TT performance. That's not to understate the importance of being comfortable in the TT position, which comes (unsurprisingly) from riding on a TT bike, on TT-like roads, in the TT position :)
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Re: Long hill repeats good for time trial training? [Clempson] [ In reply to ]
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Clempson wrote:
probably fine, but you could get the same work on a trainer. the benefit of a hill is that you can't coast, you are pedaling against a constant resistance the entire time.

Don't disagree trainer is excellent for all-around training, but just as a small point I've noticed -

Most fluid trainers have a hard time delivering very high resistance, such that you are in low-cadence (60s) while putting up 300+ watts. Most of them simulate flat roads, so you have to keep a pretty brisk cadence and very high power while geared up to truly simulate steep hill climbs.

The Kickr, however, doesn't have this problem. A steep climb on a Kickr really feels like a steep climb, even if your watts are only 200 ish, as it can really provided high resistance if needed, even if your cadence is low. I've found my indoor hillclimb simulations on the Kickr much better simulate outdoor hills as a result.
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Re: Long hill repeats good for time trial training? [jhoj] [ In reply to ]
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I certainly don't disagree there. Nothing like leaving my front door and riding off into the mountains for the whole day.
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Re: Long hill repeats good for time trial training? [jhoj] [ In reply to ]
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I benefited from doing a 25mi 5% five days a week. it was much easier to improve as compared to working indoors. it was easier to push myself when outdoors. everyday has some variation in wind, temp, other riders, etc.
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Re: Long hill repeats good for time trial training? [jhoj] [ In reply to ]
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This thread answers your question and provides you a lot to think about...or at least it should.


http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=5472357

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: Long hill repeats good for time trial training? [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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if you're doing hill climbs or trainer efforts make sure you're also focusing on your positioning on the bike. Keeping a good aero profile while putting out the power is also an important piece of the equation.
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