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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
MTM wrote:
Thanks guys!

A few short notes before hitting the sack. Official distance 52.324 km - they first reported a lap too much for some reason, which also seemed off compared to my timing guy on the side line.

From a brief look at my power it seems like something was a bit off, my CdA has consistently been lower in training as well as in last year's attempt than it was tonight. Zero offset of SRM was only moving a few points before vs. after, so power should be right. Should have gotten ~500m more had I just had the same CdA from last year (and if anything it should be slightly better now). Will have to see if I can find the culprit - hopefully that will be easier to nail down than adding the power I have added compared to last year.

Oh, they didn't really succeed completely in heating the track, conditions on the track were 24C, 1019 mbar, 36% RH.


Super congrats. What would you think that the ideal barometric pressure and relative humidity needs to be for the most favourable attempt.

Pretty much as low barometric pressure as possible. A lot of my training days I had between 980 and 990 mbar, which should give around 700 metres or so more in total distance compared to 1019 mbar. Humidity should also be higher, but has less of an effect and you probably don't want it all the way at 100% RH, but something like 70% would probably be fine - maybe depending a little on temperature, but if temperature is only 24C then I don't think 70-80% RH will be any issue.

Just did a quick calculation. If it was 980 mbar, 27C, and 75% I would have done almost exactly 1000m more (for the same power and CdA) - and that's actually without counting the slight decrease in Crr that should accompany a higher temperature.
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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [adambeston] [ In reply to ]
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adambeston wrote:
So you got it by 13 meters? That's less than a second. Crazy awesome regardless of the record.

It's 'funny', but by my calculation I actually get 52.335 km, so 24m more from the official times I've seen. I'll try and hear if they have some explanation from the discrepancy of their calculation vs. mine. But 24 m is of course still not much, though I thought I had it decently under control. I was closely following the average speed from my time keeper (which ended up at 52.34 kph according to him) and saw I crossed the needed 52.311 kph with around 2.5 minutes left. From then on I just focued on keeping the lap times under 17 seconds (52.9+ kph) to know I was beating the record and the last time I looked at the average speed it was at 52.32 kph with probably somewhere between a minute and two to go.

If anyone wants to calculate the distance at home, this is the times I've gotten:

209 laps in 59:54.227 minutes.
209th lap done in 16.892 seconds.
210th lap done in 16.820 seconds.

I believe you use the pace from the last complete lap (i.e. the 209th lap) to calculate the distance covered on the last (incomplete) lap (a little counter-intuitive).
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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [MTM] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Martin and All,

Could you comment on how your arrived at your helmet choice?

And did you need to modify the helmet?

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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nealhe wrote:
Hello Martin and All,

Could you comment on how your arrived at your helmet choice?

And did you need to modify the helmet?

Testing ;) The helmet tested faster both times I tested it when I lowered my head and looked a bit down like I actually prefer to do on the straights. I think it might effectively gain me more outside as I can ride in that position more of the time (no bankings all the time).

No modifications on the helmet - it isn't allowed, but I don't think they're that strict about it, though (as long as you don't go crazy).
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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [MTM] [ In reply to ]
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I also got 52.335439 hand calculating it out so exactly the same thing you got. I have always wondered how they calculate out those last meters. Makes sense it is the penultimate lap.

Even if you use your avg from the first 209 laps you get 52.3339.
Last edited by: adambeston: Jan 13, 18 13:14
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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [MTM] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Martin and All,

Thanks ...

Do you have still a pic of you on your bike to observe your position?

In the video you are moving fast and the focus is of the whole arena .... so difficult to see your setup.

There is a still picture on this thread but would like to see more of your setup and position.

Also what is different in your setup for a non track TT? ... (bike obviously) but other items ... it sounds like you use the same helmet?

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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I have only seen a couple of pictures from the race itself, all on the banking like this one:
https://jyllands-posten.dk/...ee/ok-timerekord.jpg

Edit: You can get a bigger version of the picture by clicking on it in the article:
https://jyllands-posten.dk/...ny-dansk-timerekord/

The position, skin suit, and helmet is all the same as on the road, only the bike is different. Well, the hand position is slightly different since the extensions are placed so far apart on this pursuit bar so have to be angled inwards a lot, but that is one of the things I hope to get changed if going for the WR.


Found an image from the front on the straights:


Last edited by: MTM: Jan 13, 18 13:30
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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [MTM] [ In reply to ]
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Hello MTM and All,

It looks like a POC Tempor helmet .... are using the visor .. or glasses?

If so ..... did you tape over the front vents for the record or does that make it too hot?

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, POC tempor with the clear visor. Didn't tape over the holes - haven't tested it as it's strictly not allowed and I'm actually not sure it's faster with the air channeling POC seems to have incorporated into the helmet. I guess it should be tested - if it proves faster I could try and hear if POC could make a helmet without the vents for me or maybe just fashion some official plugs to use (like the LG P-09).

ETA: Could be interesting to try some of your glasses to see if I could hold my head low for the optimal position for more of the time. Not sure what the UCI would think, but I don't think it's prohibited (but the commissaires could still give it a no-go if they felt like it I think).
Last edited by: MTM: Jan 13, 18 13:38
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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [MTM] [ In reply to ]
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MTM wrote:
I have only seen a couple of pictures from the race itself, all on the banking like this one:
https://jyllands-posten.dk/...ee/ok-timerekord.jpg

Edit: You can get a bigger version of the picture by clicking on it in the article:
https://jyllands-posten.dk/...ny-dansk-timerekord/

The position, skin suit, and helmet is all the same as on the road, only the bike is different. Well, the hand position is slightly different since the extensions are placed so far apart on this pursuit bar so have to be angled inwards a lot, but that is one of the things I hope to get changed if going for the WR.


Found an image from the front on the straights:


Do you have vents in that helmet? If so, is it actually improving the aeroness of the helmet with pass through airflow generating less drag or is it for cooling? Or maybe there are no vents and I am just seeing two black dots!!!!
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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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See reply above :)
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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [MTM] [ In reply to ]
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Hello MTM and All,

Congratulations!! ................. Chapeau!!

I was asking because I have a POC Tempor in the box that I have not used .... I bought it some time ago based on reports of it being very fast ...... but also very sensitive to head position .... and never go around to giving it a go.

I think I am going to give it a try now.

Thanks for the pics:



With your record perhaps POC Tempor sales will see an uptick. .... also with the new 'Star Wars' movie they are back in vogue.

I would guess that the View-Speed glasses .... as sort of advanced technology ..... are not in the spirit of the new rules for the 1 hour record ....

and might not fit well in the POC with its small visor.

It appears that the rules are trying to maintain the spirit of ...... 'not about the bike or technology'.

http://www.triathlete.com/...or-aero-helmet_71122

and

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/...empor-raceday-helmet

http://www.bikeradar.com/...poc-tempor-14-48752/

Excerpt:

"On the road you can actually feel that happen too – when you have your head low enough, it goes quiet and your speed lifts. We did a personal best on a local TT course in it, too. [emphasis added]

So it's a winner, right? Wrong. You need to have your head extremely low for it to perform at its best, it gets buffeted when you turn or drop your head, its unstable over bumps and, incredibly, above 45mph it lifts and floats around. That’s as disconcerting as it sounds."

I figure I can hold my head in the optimum POC position ... but I will have to give it some practice time .... and I can fix those other minor complaints.

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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I actually think they might have discontinued the Tempor since it doesn't seem to be on POC's site anymore, but I'm not sure.

Yes, UCI might very well not like the glasses for the hour record. I was also thinking about them for the road, though, where they would probably have less objections. One could always test without the visor if it interferes with the glasses. The visor might not make much of a difference, especially with the low-head position.
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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [MTM] [ In reply to ]
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MTM wrote:
I actually think they might have discontinued the Tempor since it doesn't seem to be on POC's site anymore, but I'm not sure.


Yes, UCI might very well not like the glasses for the hour record. I was also thinking about them for the road, though, where they would probably have less objections. One could always test without the visor if it interferes with the glasses. The visor might not make much of a difference, especially with the low-head position.


Now that it is over, I would like to ask some questions about the mental aspects of the event:

  1. Taking out the physical part (I realize that this is not easy), but was it harder to mentally focus to not overcook the pace early (Rohan Denis overcooked it relative to you), or was it harder to keep the pace up in the end. This question is hard to decouple since there is the additional layer of pain management to deal with in the latter
  2. Which part of the face was hardest...I assuming 30-50 minutes because now you have the pain buildup from the first half hour, but you have a long way to go.
  3. Were you counting RPM in your head or just looking for lap times track side during 2.
  4. How many breaths per minute were you taking? 100, 150, more? Or is there no sychonization between your pedaling rate and breathing rate.
  5. How much "extra" distance do hour record athletes on average tend to ride due to non optimal trajectory through the turns and where you doing things to focus to take the shortest line. If you can save a meter or half a meter per lap this quickly adds up?



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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [MTM] [ In reply to ]
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Performance certainly worthy of another Congratulations!
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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Normal respiratory rate during submaximal exercise is typically only 25-30 breaths/min...most people don't get up to even 50 breaths/min even during exercise at VO2max.

There is some evidence for entrainment (the technical term for synchronization) of respiration and pedaling during cycling, but it's rather weak, probably because cycling (in an upright posture, as used in lab studies) is an almost optimal modality for unconstrained respiration.

IOW, don't overthink it, just breathe (and pedal, of course).
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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [MTM] [ In reply to ]
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MTM wrote:
It's 'funny', but by my calculation I actually get 52.335 km, so 24m more from the official times I've seen. I'll try and hear if they have some explanation from the discrepancy of their calculation vs. mine. But 24 m is of course still not much, though I thought I had it decently under control. I was closely following the average speed from my time keeper (which ended up at 52.34 kph according to him) and saw I crossed the needed 52.311 kph with around 2.5 minutes left. From then on I just focued on keeping the lap times under 17 seconds (52.9+ kph) to know I was beating the record and the last time I looked at the average speed it was at 52.32 kph with probably somewhere between a minute and two to go.

If anyone wants to calculate the distance at home, this is the times I've gotten:

209 laps in 59:54.227 minutes.
209th lap done in 16.892 seconds.
210th lap done in 16.820 seconds.

I believe you use the pace from the last complete lap (i.e. the 209th lap) to calculate the distance covered on the last (incomplete) lap (a little counter-intuitive).
52.335 from me too. Your before and after whole lap averages were 52.334 and 52.339 - the two averaging methods give 52.335 and 52.336 Personally I would prefer the interpolated method than extrapolating the penultimate lap but the differences are small. One advantage of the latter is that once the hour is up, what happens is irrelevant so there can be no issue of crossing the line at 59:59.9 vs 1:00:00.1

PS Well Done
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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
MTM wrote:
I actually think they might have discontinued the Tempor since it doesn't seem to be on POC's site anymore, but I'm not sure.


Yes, UCI might very well not like the glasses for the hour record. I was also thinking about them for the road, though, where they would probably have less objections. One could always test without the visor if it interferes with the glasses. The visor might not make much of a difference, especially with the low-head position.


Now that it is over, I would like to ask some questions about the mental aspects of the event:

  1. Taking out the physical part (I realize that this is not easy), but was it harder to mentally focus to not overcook the pace early (Rohan Denis overcooked it relative to you), or was it harder to keep the pace up in the end. This question is hard to decouple since there is the additional layer of pain management to deal with in the latter
  2. Which part of the face was hardest...I assuming 30-50 minutes because now you have the pain buildup from the first half hour, but you have a long way to go.
  3. Were you counting RPM in your head or just looking for lap times track side during 2.
  4. How many breaths per minute were you taking? 100, 150, more? Or is there no sychonization between your pedaling rate and breathing rate.
  5. How much "extra" distance do hour record athletes on average tend to ride due to non optimal trajectory through the turns and where you doing things to focus to take the shortest line. If you can save a meter or half a meter per lap this quickly adds up?

1. It's two pretty different things that I don't think you can compare directly. It's almost like asking what is most comfortable, too hot or too cold. But it's not 'hard' per se not to start out too fast, it's mostly about making due diligence about your capabilities before you start.

2. I think the hardest part was keeping the pace up between 25-45 minutes. Before that it's pretty easy when you have a good idea about what you can do, after that you can see the end and pace by feel.

3. I just looked at lap times and average speed until now. I felt comfortable I could beat the record if my average speed was at least 52.2 kph with 10 minutes to go.

4. No idea, I normally just breath. Once in a while I might focus on breathing, but it's mostly to keep my mind on something else than whatever is hurting.

5. I don't know exactly, but I don't think it's more than a few hundred metres at most unless you're very inexperienced from the numbers I've seen and my general impression when looking at distance data using a wheel sensor.
Last edited by: MTM: Jan 17, 18 7:21
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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Just saw this. Great job! Amazing effort. I can't imagine the pain and scary places the mind may go during that hour.

I try to follow all the Danish cycling stuff since I work for a Danish company that sponsors a pro team. This came up in a search of recent events.
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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [MTM] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Martin

Congratulations. It's exciting to follow your quest for the world record.

A helmtet question again. Was the Poc Cerebel ever into consideration as a choice since you chose to change between two head positions on the straights and in the curves (and why/why not)?
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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
Just saw this. Great job! Amazing effort. I can't imagine the pain and scary places the mind may go during that hour.

I try to follow all the Danish cycling stuff since I work for a Danish company that sponsors a pro team. This came up in a search of recent events.

Thanks! Can I ask you who you work for?
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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [MRH] [ In reply to ]
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MRH wrote:
Hi Martin

Congratulations. It's exciting to follow your quest for the world record.

A helmtet question again. Was the Poc Cerebel ever into consideration as a choice since you chose to change between two head positions on the straights and in the curves (and why/why not)?

Thank you :)

Yes, I have also tested the Cerebel. The Tempor is faster in the low head position, but it's not possible to keep that position in the curves as you have to see where you're going to hold a good line. But it's still faster over-all with the head down lower only on the straights.
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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [MTM] [ In reply to ]
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Novo. They sponsor all the Team Novo Nordisk riders and athletes. People with type 1 diabetes doing things I could never do.

Most people avoid team kit like plague if not on the team, but as an employee I believe in those athletes and feel wearing the kit around town brings conversations to spread the word I never would have had otherwise.
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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [MTM] [ In reply to ]
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Great Job!! Can I ask about your training for hydration and food intake? I don't see anything in the picture and doubt you are taking your hands off the bars for a drink. What was your training for adaptation to be at near max for a solid hour without food or water? I generally don't eat unless longer than 2 hour ride, and don't even bring a bottle if I am out for less than an hour, but I am not working at the level you were. Thanks.
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Re: Live Stream of my Danish Hour Record Attempt Tomorrow (January 11th) [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
Novo. They sponsor all the Team Novo Nordisk riders and athletes. People with type 1 diabetes doing things I could never do.

Most people avoid team kit like plague if not on the team, but as an employee I believe in those athletes and feel wearing the kit around town brings conversations to spread the word I never would have had otherwise.

Cool, I know that team - they're always part of Tour of Denmark. It would be nice if they would make a Danish team of that caliber (there are no Danish teams on the WorldTour or even Pro Continental ones), but I guess that wouldn't make as much business sense.
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