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Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap
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My daughter and I are prepping for an upcoming Olympic-ish distance triathlon, expecting to be out on the course for 2-ish hours, and looking for some sort of liquid energy/nutrition we can consume on the bike (gels not preferred), but without the artificial stuff found in the Gatorade & others and preferably no simple sugars.

No artificial stuff - just cause that's how we roll and, well, I think you all can appreciate that.

No simple sugars - cause I read that they have to be too dilute to get enough calories without drinking too much - is that valid?

So I'm looking at a couple possibilities:

-The "HEED" product from Hammer Nutrition - pretty basic ingredients wise, but is mostly just maltodextrin. Is this stuff "natural" or just another processed artificial thing like artificial sweeteners? Also my daughter has a gluten sensitivity and I had heard that maltodextrin can be made from wheat which presents the possibility of some gluten contamination (it doesn't take much to trigger stomach issues for her). Anyone had any such issues with maltodextrin?

-Ignite Naturals "IN Pure Carbs" - it's only brown rice, but it says it is not sweetened - anyone tried this plain? Is it palatable? Do you add flavor/sweetener to it?

Any other suggestions?

TIA.
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Re: Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap [mcclelland] [ In reply to ]
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Also have a sensitive stomach, so far the best I tried is scratch labs. Not perfect but still the best...would be keen to hear others options on the topic.

http://RoadID.com/...te/4HC4V-TAFQ9XPJDTX
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Re: Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap [mcclelland] [ In reply to ]
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For two hours, you will need hydration more than you need calories. I sweat a lot, and thanks to low BP, need a ton of salt, so for two hours I would have a plain water bottle and a bottle of sports drink diluted to half strength with some extra salt thrown in. Of course, every body is different, and if you aren't used to two hour workouts, your body won't be as good at drawing on reserves and might need a little boost.

I know a few people with stomach issues who swear by Honey Stinger products, and several of them are certified to be gluten free.

No matter what you do, test it before race day. Nerves, exercise, and heat will combine to make stomachs very sensitive, so you want to make sure that your body can tolerate whatever you take in.
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Re: Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap [happyscientist] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, plan to have one bottle plain water and another of liquid calories. When you say sports drink diluted to half strength, do you mean something like one of the above mentioned by me and the other responder, or something like Gatorade (which I prefer to avoid)?
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Re: Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap [mcclelland] [ In reply to ]
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Honey.

http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/...rformance-with-honey

Openly sponsored by the honey board. But readily available in all sorts of packaging. Can be added to drinks, very versatile.

Bananas - come in really convenient packaging which is biodegradable, waterproof and easy to open.
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Re: Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap [mcclelland] [ In reply to ]
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mcclelland wrote:
My daughter and I are prepping for an upcoming Olympic-ish distance triathlon, expecting to be out on the course for 2-ish hours, and looking for some sort of liquid energy/nutrition we can consume on the bike (gels not preferred), but without the artificial stuff found in the Gatorade & others and preferably no simple sugars.

No artificial stuff - just cause that's how we roll and, well, I think you all can appreciate that.

No simple sugars - cause I read that they have to be too dilute to get enough calories without drinking too much - is that valid?

So I'm looking at a couple possibilities:

-The "HEED" product from Hammer Nutrition - pretty basic ingredients wise, but is mostly just maltodextrin. Is this stuff "natural" or just another processed artificial thing like artificial sweeteners? Also my daughter has a gluten sensitivity and I had heard that maltodextrin can be made from wheat which presents the possibility of some gluten contamination (it doesn't take much to trigger stomach issues for her). Anyone had any such issues with maltodextrin?

-Ignite Naturals "IN Pure Carbs" - it's only brown rice, but it says it is not sweetened - anyone tried this plain? Is it palatable? Do you add flavor/sweetener to it?

Any other suggestions?

TIA.
There are a lot of all-natural products out there w/ one of the most popular being EFS by 1st Endurance. With that, I highlighted the note you made above as you really want to distance yourself from any product that says simple sugars are bad during races as virtually all my experience as well as a myriad of data, says otherwise & a combo of complex & simple is optimal.

As another poster pointed out though...don't over-complicate this. For the Olympic distance, nutrition (or lack thereof) is rarely a limiter for success.

Brian Shea
http://www.PersonalBestNutrition.com
Open-Water/Masters Swimming at the Jersey Shore:
Monmouth County NJ Ocean Swim/Masters Workouts
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Re: Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap [mcclelland] [ In reply to ]
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Water. Seriously, if you're looking to do a 2 hour race, you don't need anything.
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Re: Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap [nickwhite] [ In reply to ]
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nickwhite wrote:
Water. Seriously, if you're looking to do a 2 hour race, you don't need anything.

I agree. There isn't really any evidence carbohydrate improves performance in events up to 2 hours even if the subjects have fasted overnight.

However, according to people on this forum, you need special sports drinks, gels and supplemental salt and other electrolytes, every 15 minutes, otherwise you will get cramp or die.
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Re: Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap [BigCheese] [ In reply to ]
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BigCheese wrote:
Also have a sensitive stomach, so far the best I tried is scratch labs. Not perfect but still the best...would be keen to hear others options on the topic.

You're close :)

http://www.skratchlabs.com/

It's Skratch. I'm playing with their stuff right now for possibly changing for B2B. So far so good, but I haven't really pushed it yet.

"...the street finds its own uses for things"
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Re: Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap [mcclelland] [ In reply to ]
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mcclelland wrote:
Yes, plan to have one bottle plain water and another of liquid calories. When you say sports drink diluted to half strength, do you mean something like one of the above mentioned by me and the other responder, or something like Gatorade (which I prefer to avoid)?

I use Gatorade or Heed. I got a big container of Heed power with race swag once, so I have been using that. For me though, it really isn't about calories for that type of distance, it is about making sure I get electrolytes to keep my BP up (I have had it crash a couple times, and it is terrifying, so I need a security blanket). Any calories you take in are going to have more of a placebo effect at that distance than anything else.

I have been toying with the idea of making my own energy drink out of a little honey or maple syrup and salt.
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Re: Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap [mcclelland] [ In reply to ]
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Have you thought of making your own? I use a recipe I found online and it works as well as Gatorade as far as I can tell. That way you would know exactly what is in it. I'll put the recipe below but I agree with others that a two hour race doesn't really "require" anything other than water. Although in the heat I'll push that number back to 90 minutes. And I do like something with some taste to it instead of just water when racing. The recipe below isn't super strong tasting which I like. If this one doesn't work for you, there might be a better one you could find.

1/2 Cup sugar
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/2 Cup Orange juice (not from concentrate)
1/2 Cup hot water
1 whole lemon squeezed (approx. 4 tablespoons)
7 Cups cold water

Dissolve the sugar and salt in the hot water. Then add the rest and stir. Makes about 3 bottles worth.
It supposedly contains 50 calories and 110 mg sodium per 8 ounces.

The best pace is a suicide pace, and today is a good day to die. -Steve Prefontaine
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Re: Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap [Trev] [ In reply to ]
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Trev wrote:
nickwhite wrote:
Water. Seriously, if you're looking to do a 2 hour race, you don't need anything.


I agree. There isn't really any evidence carbohydrate improves performance in events up to 2 hours even if the subjects have fasted overnight.

However, according to people on this forum, you need special sports drinks, gels and supplemental salt and other electrolytes, every 15 minutes, otherwise you will get cramp or die.

I am familiar with the general thinking that anything up to about 90min to 120min should not require any caloric intake. I went back and forth on whether or not to take any calories along and in the end decided it wouldn't hurt to have a little something on the bike if I feel like I need it, and I certainly will take any placebo effect that results :-). I plan to make a selection and test it out during a planned brick workout this weekend, and may decide to scrap it if it doesn't go well or if I just feel it is unnecessary.

Thanks for the input so far - this is all very helpful!
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Re: Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap [mcclelland] [ In reply to ]
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What you take in will likely depend on the effort you are putting out. If you plan on giving it your all and going to the limit of your abilities, you will need some for of simple sugar to get into your system fast to stoke the fires. On the other hand you can dial it right back and need nothing more than water.

Water with some honey, lemon juice and a dash of salt is actually pretty good. Play around with the amounts and see how it works for you.

Ian
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Re: Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap [mcclelland] [ In reply to ]
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Try TailwindNutrition.com I have used it primarily since July of 2013. It has been the best nutrition I've found and will not try anything else. No gut bombs, no drops of energy, not overly sweet. I just raced IM Canada two days ago and it was my one and only source of nutrition.
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Re: Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap [Trev] [ In reply to ]
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Trev wrote:
Honey.

http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/...rformance-with-honey

Openly sponsored by the honey board. But readily available in all sorts of packaging. Can be added to drinks, very versatile.

Bananas - come in really convenient packaging which is biodegradable, waterproof and easy to open.

I'm a big fan of honey. Just get it from a good source though, lot's of fillers in the store-bought stuff. Osmo is another option for the OP. IIRC, nothing artificial.
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Re: Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap [Trev] [ In reply to ]
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Trev wrote:
nickwhite wrote:
Water. Seriously, if you're looking to do a 2 hour race, you don't need anything.

I agree. There isn't really any evidence carbohydrate improves performance in events up to 2 hours even if the subjects have fasted overnight.

However, according to people on this forum, you need special sports drinks, gels and supplemental salt and other electrolytes, every 15 minutes, otherwise you will get cramp or die.

I've seen plenty of evidence that carbohydrate inproves performance in events up to 2 hours.
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Re: Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
Trev wrote:
nickwhite wrote:
Water. Seriously, if you're looking to do a 2 hour race, you don't need anything.

I agree. There isn't really any evidence carbohydrate improves performance in events up to 2 hours even if the subjects have fasted overnight.

However, according to people on this forum, you need special sports drinks, gels and supplemental salt and other electrolytes, every 15 minutes, otherwise you will get cramp or die.

I've seen plenty of evidence that carbohydrate inproves performance in events up to 2 hours.

Can you post said evidence please. Were they fasted overnight? We're the studies double blind, cross over and placebo controlled?
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Re: Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap [Trev] [ In reply to ]
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I never said clinical evidence, you just assumed that.
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Re: Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
I never said clinical evidence, you just assumed that.

Please post any evidence then.
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Re: Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap [Trev] [ In reply to ]
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Right after you post your evidence that it doesn't help, you made the claim first
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Re: Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
Right after you post your evidence that it doesn't help, you made the claim first


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3525502

Send to:
J Appl Physiol (1985). 1986 Jul;61(1):165-72.
Muscle glycogen utilization during prolonged strenuous exercise when fed carbohydrate.
Coyle EF, Coggan AR, Hemmert MK, Ivy JL.
Abstract
The purpose of this study was to determine whether the postponement of fatigue in subjects fed carbohydrate during prolonged strenuous exercise is associated with a slowing of muscle glycogen depletion. Seven endurance-trained cyclists exercised at 71 +/- 1% of maximal O2 consumption (VO2max), to fatigue, while ingesting a flavored water solution (i.e., placebo) during one trial and while ingesting a glucose polymer solution (i.e., 2.0 g/kg at 20 min and 0.4 g/kg every 20 min thereafter) during another trial. Fatigue during the placebo trial occurred after 3.02 +/- 0.19 h of exercise and was preceded by a decline (P less than 0.01) in plasma glucose to 2.5 +/- 0.5 mM and by a decline in the respiratory exchange ratio (i.e., R; from 0.85 to 0.80; P less than 0.05). Glycogen within the vastus lateralis muscle declined at an average rate of 51.5 +/- 5.4 mmol glucosyl units (GU) X kg-1 X h-1 during the first 2 h of exercise and at a slower rate (P less than 0.01) of 23.0 +/- 14.3 mmol GU X kg-1 X h-1 during the third and final hour. When fed carbohydrate, which maintained plasma glucose concentration (4.2-5.2 mM), the subjects exercised for an additional hour before fatiguing (4.02 +/- 0.33 h; P less than 0.01) and maintained their initial R (i.e., 0.86) and rate of carbohydrate oxidation throughout exercise. The pattern of muscle glycogen utilization, however, was not different during the first 3 h of exercise with the placebo or the carbohydrate feedings. The additional hour of exercise performed when fed carbohydrate was accomplished with little reliance on muscle glycogen (i.e., 5 mmol GU X kg-1 X h-1; NS) and without compromising carbohydrate oxidation. We conclude that when they are fed carbohydrate, highly trained endurance athletes are capable of oxidizing carbohydrate at relatively high rates from sources other than muscle glycogen during the latter stages of prolonged strenuous exercise and that this postpones fatigue.

Note there was no difference between the carbohydrate and the placebo group for the first 3 hours. And these subjects fasted overnight. However, I understand that around the 2 hour mark is where carbohydrate becomes beneficial for performance....
Last edited by: Trev: Jul 28, 15 10:17
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Re: Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
Right after you post your evidence that it doesn't help, you made the claim first

Seriously??

_______________________________________________________
Yes
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Re: Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap [Trev] [ In reply to ]
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How about this reference? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9081269
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Re: Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap [mcclelland] [ In reply to ]
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Dump a quarter cup of maple syrup into a 22 oz bottle. Top off with water. Try not to get your face stuck in the bottle sucking every last delicious drop out.

This will = about 200 calories.
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Re: Liquid nutrition without the artificial crap [Trev] [ In reply to ]
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Trev wrote:
jaretj wrote:
I never said clinical evidence, you just assumed that.

Please post any evidence then.

Since you left the door open

My friends and I went faster in a sprint tri when I ate a gel and drank some gatorade than we did before.
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