Like postal swims let's try postal triathlons.

Jan 31, 15 5:24

Post #1 of 24 (5152 views)

Given that triathlons are expensive propositions filled with some people who dope, draft and do terrible things to you during the swim maybe it's time to - GO POSTAL!

My first introduction to postal swims was in Rochester MN where we had a couple of national class swimmers in Jim Stewart and Vince Herring. They would swim on their own, mail in their certified results and those results would be posted with everyone else in the country.

As no two triathlons are alike (Kona - Chattanooga), no two postal triathlons would have to be alike. We could have sprint, Oly, HIM and IM distances. You could do them alone or with a few others. This could be a cost savings benefit and increase participation in triathlon training and triathlon racing.

For example, I have a training course that fits a sprint distance and could easily be doubled for Oly and then lengthen it for HIM. And while it appears nonsensical to do an IM this way, by the time we pay the IM fees and associated costs, we could pay someone to follow us during a postal IM and be money ahead.

Think of all the annoying triathletes that you won't have to meet who do things like a breaststroke and freestyle kick while swimming over you or piss in the water. And, you won't have to piss off your loved ones either by making this year's vacation a triathlon.

Anyone signing up to keep the results that are mailed in? USAT?

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

Re: Like postal swims let's try postal triathlons. [IT] [ In reply to ]

Jan 31, 15 5:58

Post #2 of 24 (5122 views)

That's just a self-supported triathlon. People do them all the time. I'm putting on a self-supported Ultraman in October in Texas - http://www.zentriathlon.com/ultrababy/

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com

Re: Like postal swims let's try postal triathlons. [texafornia] [ In reply to ]

Jan 31, 15 15:39

Post #3 of 24 (4998 views)

texafornia, you are correct about the self-supported aspect.

Here is more information on how some do it in swimming from USMS.
https://www.clubassistant.com/...c=1308&smid=4912

Unlike your event, this would be a traditional sprint - IM triathlon done with the same time restraints and rules as a triathlon.

Imagine a triathlon where you are the only one there (or maybe you and few friends). You are responsible for the water, road and support. There is no one in your way on the swim - bike - run. You start your watch and someone starts their watch and record your swim - T1 - bike - T2 - run - overall time and them mail in the results (mail = postal).

Consider that the only cost to you is your time and the expense involved above (which would be pretty low). No one on ST to bitch about you and race conditions (Thank You God). While this is based on honesty so are WTC and USAT races ...

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

Re: Like postal swims let's try postal triathlons. [IT] [ In reply to ]

Jan 31, 15 15:59

Post #4 of 24 (4989 views)

Indoor Triathlon USA is doing that to some extent. Standardized course- pool swim, trainer bike, 100 yard lap run which is then ranked against all their other events nationwide. Doing the Seattle one in a few weeks. Looks to be fun, but haven't ever done one so we will see what happens.

http://indoortriathlonusa.com/

Re: Like postal swims let's try postal triathlons. [IT] [ In reply to ]

Jan 31, 15 16:17

Post #5 of 24 (4964 views)

ya but will you get a big shiny medal with someone calling you an Ironman??? that's what i'm paying for!!

Re: Like postal swims let's try postal triathlons. [IT] [ In reply to ]

Jan 31, 15 18:39

Post #6 of 24 (4925 views)

Only problem is you really can't compare one course to another, because of differing terrain and weather conditions. But on the same day, same place, hundreds of people can compare themselves to each other if they all race at once. That's the whole point of a race.

Strava is the best thing we've got for a universal platform comparing performances. So, you could petition them to create a category where you can lump together a bunch of segments and types into one compound segment for a triathlon. Then anybody that does it gets ranked.

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com

Re: Like postal swims let's try postal triathlons. [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 15 3:41

Post #7 of 24 (4850 views)

JTolandTRI wrote:

Indoor Triathlon USA is doing that to some extent. Standardized course- pool swim, trainer bike, 100 yard lap run which is then ranked against all their other events nationwide. Doing the Seattle one in a few weeks. Looks to be fun, but haven't ever done one so we will see what happens.

http://indoortriathlonusa.com/

Spoiler alert...you won.

Re: Like postal swims let's try postal triathlons. [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 15 4:06

Post #8 of 24 (4834 views)

Jack, good point, thinking of marking the indoor postal triathlons as such so we could differentiate them from outdoor postal triathlons.

Remember the point is that the individual could put on their own race, not someone else. What if they can't make it to that race easily. What if life circumstances seem like they won't be able to attend any races this year.

The mail it in = postal triathlon allows a person to race in a personal time trial situation (which most triathlons are meant to be) and then mail in their results to be part of a local, regional, national database so they can compare their results to others.

My hopes are that postal triathlons help some keep or develop interest in the sport/industry and prepares them for traditional triathlon races in the future.

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

Re: Like postal swims let's try postal triathlons. [texafornia] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 15 4:15

Post #9 of 24 (4830 views)

texafornia - thank you for bringing this up. This might work and there would be no need to build.

Have you had personal experience with strava? Do you compete with others on it? Would you say that it be used as a national or international database for triathletes? Total cost?

Thank you in advance for your answers and once again for bringing me up to speed here.

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

Re: Like postal swims let's try postal triathlons. [IT] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 15 4:22

Post #10 of 24 (4828 views)

What most people do is look around the Strava map and "hunt" for segments that they think they can do well on. Then Strava ranks their attempts. It's like looking at race results, except the racers competed on different days (years even).

This gives you a "race" with no entry fee, a starting time whenever is convenient for you, and your option to have the best conditions possible. The downside is that you can't prevent cheating, but nobody is winning any money or huge bragging rights, so cheating isn't a huge problem so far.

Segment hunting on Strava is a big deal and people love it. It inspires you to train for a "race", and that race can be just down your street, anytime you want.

You should talk to strava and see if they have any intention of doing something like this for triathlons. If not, then you'll have to start building it.

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com

Last edited by: texafornia: Feb 1, 15 4:24

Re: Like postal swims let's try postal triathlons. [gregn] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 15 6:48

Post #11 of 24 (4785 views)

Assuming you are referring to bio/photo on their website.... No I didn't/haven't won. I put my race schedule together back in November and posted it (which they found) and offered me comped entry for use of name/bio/event thoughts. I was planning on it long before that went up and still have yet to race it or any other indoor triathlon. I've got no stake in the event, just thought the idea of nation wide rankings was interesting and in the same vein as the thread.

Last edited by: JTolandTRI: Feb 1, 15 6:50

Re: Like postal swims let's try postal triathlons. [IT] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 15 6:51

Post #12 of 24 (4782 views)

A guy on ST recently posted his VO2 max was in the 80s

Once a guy said his 100m freestyle time was a 49 but it was several years back. When I told him that a 49 qualified you for the us Olympic team every time up until 2008 he said maybe he was wrong.

An ST self reported postal triathlon. Yeah, something tells me that the results would be really "interesting."

But I would do it because I am always looking for competition to stay motivated.

Re: Like postal swims let's try postal triathlons. [IT] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 15 6:54

Post #13 of 24 (4781 views)

Sorry, should have mentioned that I understand that difference.

Maybe in order to do something like a swim postal it has to be done as pool swim, same start/end point bike, and track run? I would say trainer bike with power based results but you begin to complicate things.

It's not like an hour swim postal can be done in open water....

Re: Like postal swims let's try postal triathlons. [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 15 7:48

Post #14 of 24 (4756 views)

Ha, nope. I was just responding to this comment, "Looks to be fun, but haven't ever done one so we will see what happens", using past tense language to indicate confidence in how things will turn out. In other words...I think you've got a chance!

Re: Like postal swims let's try postal triathlons. [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 15 11:31

Post #15 of 24 (4719 views)

I like the idea but the execution of that indoor format is a big fail.

In general:
1 mile swimming = 3 miles running = 7.5 miles biking.

In this format the bike is 22.5 X more important than the swim. I predict the winner will win by more than their total swim distance meaning they could just skip the swim all together

Re: Like postal swims let's try postal triathlons. [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 15 11:32

Post #16 of 24 (4718 views)

Jack,

Before texafornia brought up Strava, was thinking of using T&F map it to lay out the swim, bike and run. What T&F map offers is the ability to really zoom in so one can have an accurate swim distance (in my case from the dock and around the island once (half mile) or twice (1.5KM). Same with road. Of course with a bike computer, the bike is measured as can be the run. Using GPS / Strava takes it to perhaps a more accurate level.

Here is Track & Field map it http://www.usatf.org/routes/map/ Since I am low tech, I use it often.

True, not as accurate as a pool swim in a postal; yet, the OW swim would be more like an OW swim in a triathlon where one is almost bound to go farther (unless a corner is cut).

Yes to self-honesty. A person can say something if they want to feel better about themselves. To improve, it's critical to be honest or you get to that point that you previously exaggerated and then where are we - back to where we were. ;)

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

Re: Like postal swims let's try postal triathlons. [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 15 11:38

Post #17 of 24 (4716 views)

Finding out one's VO2 can be rather humbling. Mine was in the mid 60s and I felt very limited. Did have one of my runners in the high 70s and sure enough he finished second in the state cross country championships two years in a row and got a scholarship. Knowing your VO2 is probably worse than knowing your height in basketball.

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

Re: Like postal swims let's try postal triathlons. [gregn] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 15 12:06

Post #18 of 24 (4704 views)

Haha.

Figured you were a typical STer about to jump down my throat for secretly promoting my own company or something. Makes sense now.

We will see. Hip has been on and off injury wise recently so that 100yd lapped run may be a little bit too abusive to race at full gas.

Re: Like postal swims let's try postal triathlons. [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 15 12:09

Post #19 of 24 (4702 views)

I would definitely agree on the bike weighted side of things. They are claiming they took average times (with some rounding) from USAT Sprint Nationals. No real thoughts on whether it is good or bad, just what it is. A friend of mine who is an extremely good distance swimmer (5700+ yard hour postal) but slightly slower on the bike/run will be racing so comparing the two results will be interesting. I

Re: Like postal swims let's try postal triathlons. [IT] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 15 12:15

Post #20 of 24 (4699 views)

Hadn't seen that utility. I've always just used Mapmyrun.com. I think GPS really helps for the bike and run. You really don't care about anything but net elevation/location being zero. Sure some courses are faster so in the end part of the postal triathlon may be finding a fast course.

OW is definitely doable but a complexity. I swim between a set of Speed Zone marks that are visible on Google Earth so I can measure a pretty accurate distance. My 910XT swings widely in lap distance even across the 2-3 laps of the same swim much less different days. The OW course would have to be "Google mappable" but that becomes hard because what if my two landmarks are 800m instead of 750m or 2.5 miles instead of 2.4 miles.

In no way arguing against the idea of postal triathlon. Sounds like a very interesting idea just debating the practicalities.

Re: Like postal swims let's try postal triathlons. [IT] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 15 12:17

Post #21 of 24 (4697 views)

Having a high VO2 max doesn't always lead to instant success though. You have to be injury free to run well. I just tested at 78 on the bike (likely a few higher on the run) yet can't even do a run test because I am once again injured which also destroyed my cross country season.

Re: Like postal swims let's try postal triathlons. [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 15 20:02

Post #22 of 24 (4603 views)

You seem to be missing something. If you measure the results based on total distance traveled then 100 yards of swimming will equal 100 yards on the bike. And 100 yards of swimming takes 8 times longer than 100 yards of biking. It will not even be necessary to complete a lap in the pool to win this event.

Re: Like postal swims let's try postal triathlons. [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 15 20:09

Post #23 of 24 (4597 views)

I hadn't even thought about that. You are totally right. 800 yards or whatever is pretty much insignificant. Even if the faster swimmer put 200 yards into you on the swim the gap is practically meaningless by the time you bike and run. Looks like Portland happened today so results should be up sometime soon. Will be interesting to look at.

Re: Like postal swims let's try postal triathlons. [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]

Feb 3, 15 21:28

Post #24 of 24 (4469 views)

You nailed it.

1st place would still have won without swimming.

http://indoortriathlonusa.com/results/portland/

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