Zero interest. I love the stuff USAT does.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I like the idea but with money on the line for amateurs, they need to also address anti-doping (no mention of it or WADA, or USADA on their own announcement) and will this take away from USAT nationals? Guess it's far enough away that athletes with the resources could do both.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

what is that stuff?

I used to do a few of the Lifetime events before they scaled back. Glad to see a renewed interest/emphasis with short course events by a professional organization who has a reputation for well-organized, professionally run races. Really could care less about the $15 USAT fee. Just happy to see another series of short course events with "destination type" locations to add to/complement the IMG/Premier Escape Series.

Already is a thread about the stuff :)

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I'm surprised WTC hasn't done this too. USAT in many ways profits as (and is in business as) an insurance broker. Yes, there are advantages to us for that. However, bigger organizations can spread the risk and/or negotiate the risk on their own and don't need USAT.

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

Ironman enjoy having Kona be the de facto real actual ultra distance world championship, as opposed to a self proclaimed world's like the 70.3. If they distanced themselves from the national governing body, they may lose that privilege.

Can't think of any other reason why IM would require USAT membership. They run two completely separate racing circuits otherwise.

Looks really cool, an all AG race? Didnt see if there was any pro field mentioned, but a $50k AG purse at the end? DO pros get to race as AG'ers and vie for the $$?

I have no issues with all the changes they put in, seems like a very friendly format, just need to cross the T's on the actual racing athletes(since they are winning $$)

USAT needs WTC more than WTC needs lifetime.

If WTC took this route wouldn't surprise me to see USAT introduce radical changes tr collapse in < 3yrs.

There are some threads many years back about when WTC was thinking about not being USAT insured. Probably worth the read

H2ofun what does USAT do for the avg triathlete?

They suck at AG doping control, they suck at mandating WTC and other races crack down at drafting and they haven't done a great job at elite production either by cutting funding to coaches that produce 33% of their olympians. In part bc the coach though having a weekly phone call with their (worthless?) HP director & mandating that their training be on training peaks was a waste of time a few years ago especially when the HP director wasn't in control of their training.

Besides AG rankings which I admit is very popular and insurance for races and camps (which is probably their best attribute), what does USAT do for me?

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

For one it's the sports national federation which means they support Olympic athletes and other athletes on the ITU circuit. They also have development programs for younger athletes. Their mission statement is to grow and inspire the triathlon community. USAT is fundamental to triathlon in the united states.

teehee

I really like Life Time's customer focus. These are my takeaways from the Triathlete piece:

1. Amateur focus
2. No $15 fee tacked on to entry
3. Penalty tent vs. penalty minutes added to results.
4. Ability to pick a start time
5. Access to transition area based on start time
6. Free bike shipping based on event sign-up time
7. A championship event in NYC

Some of these options were discussed on the USAT thread. Competition is a good thing and perhaps Life Time may cause change to the USAT business model. I would be interested in Slowman's take as he brought up some of these options on the USAT thread.

What do they do for me. First is ranking, and for me, this is huge. Gives me the motivation to race. I was trying for AA in Du, Tri and aquathlon this year. Going to give Aquabike a try also, but with my weak bike, ... :)

I LOVE their Nationals!!!!!

I LOVE being able to try for TeamUSA!!!!!!!!

For most who are not good enough for TeamUSA, well, they will never care. Or not good enough to chase AA or top 20 in rankings, will not care.
And do not care about racing against some of the best at Nationals, will not care.

Oh well, the hate against stuff will always be there it seems.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

USAT, IMO, is a near worthless organization. I would love to see WTC move away from them (surprised they haven't) and see how USAT responds. I agree... radical changes or they're out of business. I'm good with either.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

i am glad you find motivation and fulfillment in pursuing your goals. but to be honest, if you really wanted to race "the best" triathletes in the country you would not be racing USAT Nationals. i have only been once, and it is definitely a cool race with a great vibe, but the best triathletes in each age group are rarely present.

unfortunately, there is no other short course "championship level" race...

well, until now maybe.

Because of cost, you will never ever get the "best" ever someplace at the same time. This includes Kona.

This is one reason I love to chase rankings. It is the closest tool we will ever have to race head to head, as I say. Over the years the athletes I race against directly at races and get beat by, are ahead of me in the rankings. The ones I beat, I am usually ahead of. When I do get to Nationals or worlds, and race these folks head to head rather thank via rankings, usually, the same results happen. I get beat by folks higher in rankings, and bet folks lower in rankings.

So each of us get motivated by different things. For me, and a handful of other top athletes I know personally, we love to chase each other via rankings.

I have zero interesting in their race, and I have been a top racer for many years. So, what does this say about their event?

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I think any organization the size and depth of Lifetime Fitness, doesn't need anyone really. They already have a million gazillion dollar insurance policy, this will be an easy add on to their policy.

Now the question you asked about who needs USAT? Looking at it, to me small RD's need them. Or maybe they don't and they do the work to find their own insurance policy. Now I don't think it's that hard, but I think what USAT benefits is the small RD that wants to do a quick and easy check mark of insurance. USAT covers you, boom.

It's the same process for "coaches". How many athletes turn coaches do the "usat" route versus non-sanctioned route. My guess is that an overwhelming majority of coaches in the US have atleast once gone through certification process. It looks good on the biz card, and it looks good when newbie age grouper clicks on your name when it was in the "find a coach" at the usat site. Then you'll see what many do, once they have their biz going strong, they simply let certs lapse. But that's like anything.

You can slam them for drafting, but that aint going to improve. Or shall I say, not to the degree we think/want. Why? Because it's essentially volunteer based. And it's based on asking fellow triathletes to put up or shut up to make it better. And it's freaking hard. I say you rode within 10m box, you say you were riding 11m, and I'm going to sit there and take a ass chewing from you because I gave you a penalty? Yeah....no....So fixing drafting is freaking hard. Really hard thing to do in triathlons context. So change the drafting zones or put less people on WTC courses, that's your answer....but that doesn't work because RD's lose money in their pocket on that instance. So yeah back to square one.

Now you bring up what they are good at. AG rankings-nationals, insurance for races. What should the cost be? Instead of $50 what should it be? I've asked Huff that very question, because I'm curious the number they come up with.

I'm all for calling spades, spades. I think large corporations are set to do their own thing, especially ones that already have their own athlete insurance policies. If you can say what they dont do well, can we talk about what they do do well and the value in that? I've sorta thought WTC went with USAT races more out of respect then anything, if that makes sense. Sorta scratch each other's back so to speak. I mean they essentially create their own rules within the usat rule books for their races, so it wouldn't be too shocking if they bounced completely.

Organizations need shake ups when it's needed. I don't think anyone is against that. I feel they see it now, in how they are pushing pool swim sprints for the beginners and getting back to basics with races, sorta the progression of races instead of many athletes doing 1 race and then an IM and then leaving. Not even WTC really wins in that, other then in short term gains.

(I hope this is more or less a more balanced look at things, not really for or against any decisions).

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Step back from your myopic view bc it's not about you even though you think it is. The avg person isn't qualifying for Worlds or racing USATAGNC.

Think about what the average person gets from USAT. What is it?
Do they get a robust age group doping program? Not right now
Do they get a strict drafting policy that races follow? No
Do we get a universal rule book for competting around the world? NO in fact USAT is one of the 2 biggest NF's hindering this, France being the other


So what do we get? Not what do you get, but what do we get?

No hate just curious

fwiw I've raced tri & du worlds and have qualified more times than I can remember for both including finishing well inside the top 10 in my AG at last year's USATAGNC

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

if you really wanted to race "the best" triathletes in the country you would not be racing USAT Nationals. ……….., but the best triathletes in each age group are rarely present.
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whoa, i was really surprised to read this. i've been doing nationals since 1993 and my experience has been the opposite, so maybe just the best have been present in the age groups i've been in.
peggy

I'm convinced, at this point, the only solution to drafting is technological. Will we ever see that solution? Hard to say.

The thing I really like about Lifetime's changes is the ability to pick what wave you want to go off in (to a degree). IMO this is a step in the direction of having Categories instead of Age Groups.

i would imagine that as you get older (i.e. past 60+ maybe) you are more likely to encounter competition at a short race like USAT Nats vs. your various 70.3 and 140.6 distance races.

i had a fairly bubble-istic view of national competition for a few years. but that was mainly because i competed against similar people in every race. i felt that i had risen to the top of the proverbial heap. then i went to a race with national level competition and got my ass kicked. i got better and my little bubble expanded as i went to more races. but then i moved to a different part of the country and realized that there's a whole different set of people who can kick my ass. that's not even considering going to an international level/world champs level event, where placing top 10 "american" is a big accomplishment.

so no, any one race in one place is never going to have the highest level of competition.

it's a mixed bag. There are plenty of people there who would crush no matter where they raced. There are several long course athletes that don't step down and some for good reason.

The bike becomes more important in 70.3 & IM racing. Those formats also reduce the importance of the swim compare to oly races.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

No more USAT one day fee. The entry fee is the entry fee.

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So what will be interesting is to see if that entry fee suddenly truly stays $15 cheaper or your suddenly paying the same as before. Essentially if they stay at what the price was it now suddenly new price was old price + USAT fee.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I have never ever basically heard any of these complaints at any races I do or help at. And these is a chance I might be at more than just about anyone in this group.
I only hear the gripping on ST. I do hear all the time folks will not view, get involved in ST because it is nothing but a negative grouping of elitists.

So do 99% of racers care about doping, nope. Do 99% care about drafting, nope, and some of the worst I have seen at the top racers!!!
Do 99% care about a universal rule book? Nope.

I have never ever heard folks talking or bitching about the above, ever basically.

So ST can pound away on this stuff but the outside folks just laugh since it is nothing but negative. Why do you think USAT basically never ever posts on ST?
I get them to post on my wussy TeamUSA FB page. I wonder why. Anyone does personal attacks and they are bye bye. Different opinions, great.

And you and others can always attack me for thinking it is about me. TONS of folks talk about what they have done, etc. Why are they not beat up on?

Oh well, as I said, these posts lately attack USAT is just one example of why so many never ever get near ST.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep