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Legs are shot at about mile 8 in 70.3's ??
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At about mile 8 in my 2 most recent 70.3's this year ( Galveston and New Orleans ) my legs get super heavy and are shot. HR is not too high, it's stays about 150-155 which is where it is on my run the entire time. Actually training runs are up in the mid 160's with a pace of 9:20/mile. For reference 40 years old, max HR is 180 - AT is approximately 172. Run pace is 9:30/mile during the race. Calories taken on the bike are 2 bottles of Perform, 3 gels and a banana along with 2 bottles of water. On the run it is cup of Perform and water at each aid station, no gels or solid food. Is this a nutrition/calorie issue or something else I am missing. Curious to hear some angles on this.
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Re: Legs are shot at about mile 8 in 70.3's ?? [RC186] [ In reply to ]
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How much are you running during training?

How hard are you biking during the races? Pacing based on power?
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Re: Legs are shot at about mile 8 in 70.3's ?? [RC186] [ In reply to ]
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You just need to get fitter. More training. :)

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Re: Legs are shot at about mile 8 in 70.3's ?? [RC186] [ In reply to ]
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Your heart rate range looks reasonably sensible, but that depends on the training leading up tothe race. If your training runs are at a higher pace I'm guessing you may be doing too many tempo runs as a ratio to long slow runs. Hard to say without more background. Maybe you just went out too hard on the swim and bike. Maybe you didn't eat enough the night before or morning of the race. Lots of variables.

What's your half marathon time for a comparable course?

How long were you on the bike for? If it was a hilly course and the bike ride took 4 hours you probably didn't have enough nutrition. If it was a flat course and you did it in 2:15 then your intake looks more sensible.

How was your bike ride compared to your training?

What was your nutrition like before the race
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Re: Legs are shot at about mile 8 in 70.3's ?? [RC186] [ In reply to ]
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I'll pile on b/c I've had the same issue. the answer is the same as above--

run more during training.

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Re: Legs are shot at about mile 8 in 70.3's ?? [RC186] [ In reply to ]
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Not a nutrition issue. Probably a fitness issue. Run and bike more :)

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Re: Legs are shot at about mile 8 in 70.3's ?? [art] [ In reply to ]
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Typical training/running miles are 16 per week.
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Re: Legs are shot at about mile 8 in 70.3's ?? [RC186] [ In reply to ]
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Are your training runs @ 9:20 race simulations (i.e.- straight from a swim & bike into a run)?

If not, I'd assume you probably want to back off a 9:30 pace on race day as that seems pretty close to training pace. I'm new to this whole thing, but some threads I read showed people who ran 7:30/mile Half Mary's were at like 8:00-8:30/mile for the HIM half mary.

Also going to depend on how hard you went on the bike vs your training as well.
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Re: Legs are shot at about mile 8 in 70.3's ?? [RC186] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know much but I think 16 per week is too little running.
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Re: Legs are shot at about mile 8 in 70.3's ?? [dado0583] [ In reply to ]
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2:45 on the bike, no watt information - currently do not track it. ( I know that might be flaw as well ). It was relatively flat, little windy HR on bike was 138-145. AM nutrition was a bowl of oatmeal with honey and a banana, bottle of G2.
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Re: Legs are shot at about mile 8 in 70.3's ?? [RC186] [ In reply to ]
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There's your answer. Run more
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Re: Legs are shot at about mile 8 in 70.3's ?? [Rambler] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the quick input folks!! Had a feeling that was going to be the case. Appreciate the input.
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Re: Legs are shot at about mile 8 in 70.3's ?? [RC186] [ In reply to ]
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Bad runs are typically casued by improperly pacing the bike or nutrition issues. Of course you need to have sufficient run fitness to maintain whatever pace as well but assuming your training runs suggest you are running an appropriate pace I'd say your bike is the most likely culprit. Do you have a power meter? I'd be willing to bet that you are biking beyond what you should be considering you still have to run 13 miles. The bike should feel on the easy side, less so if you ride under 2:30 but it still shouldn't be difficult if you expect to run well.
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Re: Legs are shot at about mile 8 in 70.3's ?? [Rambler] [ In reply to ]
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Rambler wrote:
There's your answer. Run more

+1. I'm not sure what the sweet spot is, but I get up to 30-32 miles/week for 70.3 training. I had a decent run at NOLA on that training, all things considered (heat, probably a bit of over-biking). Bike fitness also plays a big role.
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Re: Legs are shot at about mile 8 in 70.3's ?? [TH3_FRB] [ In reply to ]
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Bad runs are typically casued by improperly pacing the bike or nutrition issues. Of course you need to have sufficient run fitness to maintain whatever pace as well but assuming your training runs suggest you are running an appropriate pace I'd say your bike is the most likely culprit. Do you have a power meter? I'd be willing to bet that you are biking beyond what you should be considering you still have to run 13 miles. The bike should feel on the easy side, less so if you ride under 2:30 but it still shouldn't be difficult if you expect to run well.
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How about bad bikes following the first leg of a duathlon?

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Re: Legs are shot at about mile 8 in 70.3's ?? [TH3_FRB] [ In reply to ]
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TH3_FRB wrote:
Bad runs are typically casued by improperly pacing the bike or nutrition issues. Of course you need to have sufficient run fitness to maintain whatever pace as well but assuming your training runs suggest you are running an appropriate pace I'd say your bike is the most likely culprit. Do you have a power meter? I'd be willing to bet that you are biking beyond what you should be considering you still have to run 13 miles. The bike should feel on the easy side, less so if you ride under 2:30 but it still shouldn't be difficult if you expect to run well.

I agree with this but in addition I'd like to know what you (the OP) would expect to run in just a half-marathon. Just so we have a target to know what you are capable of. If you are only capable of a 2:04 in just the run then you would need to expect to run a little slower in the HIM and I wouldn't be surprised if you ran ~ 2:10.

If you are capable of a much quicker run than a 2:04 then you would need to look at bike pacing - fitness - nutrition.

jaretj
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Re: Legs are shot at about mile 8 in 70.3's ?? [RC186] [ In reply to ]
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Not to beat a dead horse but I had/have the EXACT same problem as you. My last two 70.3s(only two) I paced properly on the bike, actually I took it a little easier than my coaches race plan by a few watts for fear of the run. I would come off the bike feeling great and make sure I dont start to fast. I knock off the first 8 miles at a pace I feel great at and should be able to hold for the race and then BAM!!! Legs are done, no warning, no extreme fatigue, they just start slowing until my last mile pace is about 2-2:30 slower than the 1st 8 mile pace. Since then i have been running A LOT more and although I haven't tested it yet (June 1st Raleigh) but I have done two half marathons and shattered my PRs while negative splitting the back ends of the race. So with all that said

+96 on running more in training!!!!
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Re: Legs are shot at about mile 8 in 70.3's ?? [RC186] [ In reply to ]
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Just saw that you're only running ~16 miles a week. Considering you are training for a 13 mile run that isn't enough. I'm not big on volume but I still do 25-30 miles a week - 12-15 mile long run, 6-8 miles with some variation of tempo/threshold, a couple of 2-3 mile transition runs off the bike.
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Re: Legs are shot at about mile 8 in 70.3's ?? [TH3_FRB] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome !! This is all great input and very insightful. Thanks guys!!
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Re: Legs are shot at about mile 8 in 70.3's ?? [RC186] [ In reply to ]
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16mpw is not enough, even if you pace the bike spot on, for a 13 mile run off the bike. That's ~80% of your weekly mileage right there.

That makes race week, if you run some during the week leading into the race, a week where you are running more then normal. That should not be the norm.

Solution. Run a lot more. But add frequency to get your volume, don't just pile the miles on top of your other runs.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: Legs are shot at about mile 8 in 70.3's ?? [RC186] [ In reply to ]
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I used to experience this and my answer was running more often (which equated to running more). I went from 3-4 days a week running to 6 late last year (thanks BarryP). I never did anything but easy runs and I think my longest leading up to my fall HIM was 8 miles. In a few short weeks I ran 20 minutes better off the bike in my race. I wasn't that much fitter I just didn't blow up. Full Disclosure: went from 2:18 off the bike to 1:55, Half Marathon PR is 1:45
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Re: Legs are shot at about mile 8 in 70.3's ?? [mbwallis] [ In reply to ]
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mbwallis wrote:
Rambler wrote:
There's your answer. Run more


+1

+1
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Re: Legs are shot at about mile 8 in 70.3's ?? [RC186] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, I'll echo everyone else and say you should absolutely run more. 16 mpw is too light to finish a half marathon strongly, much less after swimming and cycling. That alone will be a big help, especially if you can already make it 8 miles before blowing up.

Don't neglect your bike fitness and pacing, though. I'm kind of a bad example, but I typically run over 40 mpw and ride maybe once or twice for as long as I feel like. In other words, I'm relatively a much stronger runner than cyclist. I went into FL 70.3 thinking that once I reached T2 I'd be home free, but my run pace ended up being over 2 minutes slower than my marathon pace. In my case clearly cycling is to blame since I was trashed before ever putting on running shoes, but the takeaway is that you can't count on strong running fitness to save you. If you stay strong on the bike and continue to pace it intelligently, then your extra running volume will pay off huge on the back end.
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Re: Legs are shot at about mile 8 in 70.3's ?? [RC186] [ In reply to ]
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Same issue but I run 140 miles per month / 35 miles a week . Did Oceanside and same happened to me but my problem was I wasn't riding enough.
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