I was in the same boat last year. I know it sucks when people say this, but I found that I just needed to keep swimming more. Whatever amount you can do. I started only being able to do 25m at a time. I just kept doing repeats of that until I could do 50, then 100, and so on.

I feel like it was a good 6 months before swimming didn't feel like torture. At some point something clicked and now I'm pretty comfortable. Still not that fast, but I can go for a long time.

In the meantime fins and a snorkel can make the learning process more enjoyable.

I appreciate the response. Is a snorkel considered a good idea when learning? I'm sure that if I used the snorkel and felt good swimming that I could be 100% sure that breathing was my biggest issue.
I'm not even interested in going fast, mainly just being able to swim for a long time.
-Ryan

Swim more. A lot more. Get used to structured sets. Start off by maybe just swimming 25yds and then resting for 5 seconds (leave on the top, leave on the bottom). See how many 25s you can chain together. After doing that for a while start off by swimming a 50 and then finish the workout with 25s. Slowly build up.

From a form standpoint, since you're a strong runner/biker, your kick is almost certainly a liability. You're likely burning a ton of oxygen while actually slowing yourself down. So, the first thing I'd do is square away your kick. Work on your ankle flexibility and do "vertical kicking" and "ballerina" kicking drills. Just search for them on YouTube. Your goal is for your kick to give you decent body position (near and parallel to the surface) without slowing you down or burning a ton of oxygen.

You can self coach beyond that but I don't recommend it. Find a coach you can work with once a week. Maybe join a masters team. Slowly chip away at improving your form. When you're told to do drills really focus on how your body feels and focus on making that transfer to your regular swimming. To that end, don't work on too much at one time. One or two things at a time until it's second nature.

There are no shortcuts in swimming. It's 100% form and 100% fitness. You need fitness to hold your form and without form all the fitness in the world isn't going to save you :) It's a long journey but you can do it if you have the mindset of slowly chipping away at it.

One parting thought: maybe stay away from Total Immersion. I'm not saying it's flawed but a lot of people who go down the TI rabbit hole end up with cripplingly low turnover (myself included).

I'm definitely not an expert, so take this with a grain of salt, but I found it helpful to isolate different parts of the stroke, and then try to put it all together.

So I would use a snorkel with a pull bouy (and an ankle strap sometimes) to isolate the front of the stroke. It was hard for me to learn the proper arm mechanics when I was flailing my head and gasping for breath. Once I had the proper arm mechanics down and didn't have to think about them, I could concentrate on adding in breathing.

I enjoy the Tower 26 podcast for some good things to think about while swimming. Might be helpful for you to listen if you have time.

I had a roommate that would go to the pool sometimes with me. He experienced pretty much the same thing that you were describing but his ego was too tough to actually stop (mostly because he knew that I was watching and he feared I would bust his balls). Anyway, he told me that the big secret was to push a little past the wall. 50 yards wasn't enough to get out of the initial startup pains. He said that he'd just force himself to keep on going and admitted that if he made it to the 200 mark, the discomfort would start to go away, especially during the warmup.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

I was in a very similar situation you are and am adding another vote for swimming more. I only did duathlons the past few years, but made the switch to tri's this year (finished first one - a sprint - a couple weekends ago). I could swim a bit longer than you can starting out, but it was still very challenging. As someone else said, by slowly working on the distance and adding a little more bit by bit, you'll get there. I also needed to get used to being a bit uncomfortable while swimming, as in being tired and wanting to stop for a breather, but knowing I don't NEED to, so hanging in there for a bit longer. The more you do it, the more you'll figure out pacing. Also, I'd try for another lesson with a different coach; maybe ask for recommendations for one? It's hard to believe there's no advice they can offer you. I had one session when I was starting out and they gave me a ton of advice and things to work on, which led to improvements.

Hope this helps, good luck.

Obviously you had the wrong coach. Not a surprise. Although why you didn't just get a better coach is a surprise. So:

1. Get a better coach. (see 6 below)
2. Swim a lot. After you think you are swimming a lot, swim even more.
3. Read Sheila Taormina's Swim Speed Secrets.

All of these things helped me take +/- 30sec/100yds off my times this winter. That's how much I sucked before trying to figure it out on my own and thinking I was strong and fit enough to do it wrong.

Optional but recommended:

4. Support your local Masters club by joining.
5. Join USMS too.

Best bang for your buck:

6. Join Water World Swim. From Daly City you can be at Aquatic Park in 20-30 minutes. You can swim with Coach Pedro and all of the other coached on Sunday mornings and Thursday evenings, you will get a lot of great instruction, meet and lot of great people, and as a member all the weekly swims are free. Check it out tomorrow at 6:00pm for the drop in price, talk with the coaches, and you'll be glad you did.

You might want to consider using a pull buoy for a while. This will help you develop a better upper body suitable for swimming and can help with form issues. Any way you could upload a video of you swimming?

This is one of the reasons tri and swim coaching gets a bad rap. Your coach was not good, and that is putting it mildly.

Get a new coach, if you can find someone good it will help you HUGELY. It will save you thousands of hours of time. So how to find someone good? Here is a short write up:
http://darkspeedworks.com/blog-swimcoach.htm

Good luck and do not give up, you can and will get faster !

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
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I agree that your coach wasn't doing a good job, but contrary to what people here say, there IS a talent curve for swimming, and some people (I'm a prime example) are just on the lower end of it, and it really shows when we start learning to seriously swim.

I had experiences similar to you, maybe slightly better, in that I was super duper slow, and got totally gassed after 100m unless swimming like 3:00/100 for my first few months of swimming, and even after a year, a 2:00/100 yard effort was pretty much my max all-out pace.

I wish I could say I made all these horrendous mistakes in training that accounted for that, but in retrospect, I did not. I did everything 'right' - went to the pool 5x/wk, started with tons of form drills and float drills, got input from other swimmers including self-videos, did lots of intervals and few continuous swim sets, did those intervals hard when called for, etc. I really did do everything 'nearly by the book' and still just sucked.

For me, the overwhelming limiter was my poor muscular arm/back endurance in the swim motion. It took me two YEARS just to get it to a slower than-MOP level, for real. I wasn't swimming like 20k/wk, but I was also physically incapable of doing that back then - my rotator cuff would get inflamed if I did more than 15k/wk, and no, it wasn't because of some weird form error. My form is very similar now, and I don't have that problem at 15k anymore.

At the time I was a 3:12 marathon runner, 18:20ish 5k runner, pretty decent cyclist for my limited experience (never lower than top 30% even in my first time out clueless), and I had run 70-100mpw during several cycles, so training seriously was NOT an issue for me. I was fully committed to swim improvement, but the body just took a long, long time to respond in my case.

Fortunately, respond it did, and I typically finish in the top 35% and have gotten as high has the top 25% in fairly competitive regional triathlons, which for me, is pretty darn good! (I was the 2nd to last AG swim finisher in my first 2 triathlons!)

I would agree that swimming more is definitely part of the equation. But since you're a beginner, now is your chance to develop good stroke mechanics early. A Masters coach can help, but I'd recommend more individualized instruction at this stage. I find that Masters coaches are fairly hit or miss when it comes to technique - I've had some that will take a lot of time to refine your stroke, but others don't seem to notice/care what the hell you're doing out there. Doing group drills is a waste of time, especially if you're unclear on what the drill is designed to do. I do my share of drills, but it's always with a goal in mind.

There are a lot of great Masters groups in the Bay Area - I swim with one in SF, and I've dropped in on a bunch of others. They're all very welcoming. If you can't keep up with the group at first, fins can help. I definitely know people on my team who made vast improvements just by joining the team. One lady I know couldn't keep up with the people in the slowest lane - a year later, she was winning her age group at local open water races. Like you, she had an athletic background, which helps.

Also - don't use a pull buoy. Learn to swim without one.

I will just say that I wish I knew some good coaches in the area. If anyone has any ideas, please let me know!! I just find it crazy that one of the coaches (or former swimmers) at Stanford and/or Cal doesn't do private lessons on the side...

Ryan,

Good on you for wanting more. Don't settle. I have both coached a masters program and swam in many masters program and I have to say that typically a master program is not a place to "learn" how to swim. It is a great place to get motivated to swim, longer, harder, faster than you might on your own once you're moderately capable. I'd even go a step farther and say that getting into a masters program too early can sometimes solidify some bad habits that could limit you down the road and that's a bummer.

I do the like the frequency idea but not in the blind manner that's been suggested previously in this thread. At the onset (and if you're taxed after a 50 and need a 1min rest than you're at the beginning of this journey) you need some foundational skills. You need to know what your biggest issues are, why they matter, when - in the stroke - they occur and how to correct them. Then you can bring all that knowledge into your frequency. When I get a hold of someone like you for an hour lesson and then they're willing to swim often to work on the issues we identify - that's an athlete who makes big gains and makes them QUICKLY - and that's something that is too often ignored. All beginners can and will improve with more time in the water but let's not drag this stage out for months, let's get these skills locked down in a week and move on!

I took a look through the Slowtwitch Coaching certified swim coaches who came to the Clermont, Florida clinic in March and we don't yet have anybody in your area. I want to make a recommendation to a coach whom I know can deliver and while I'm sure there are several excellent swim instructors in the Bay Area the only great one I know is Leslie Thomas at Swim Art (swim_art@yahoo.com). If you're going to be in the Los Angeles area anytime soon drop me a note and we'll get an hour in the pool together.

Keep after it, good swimming can be there for you for sure!

Ian

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

What, no mention of the centrality of the Vasa Trainer in your swim improvement???

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Heh heh

Once op is faster than 1:50 per 100, then I start button out the vasa recs!!

Ya, you should go into sales for the Vasa folks, since you'd be one of the very, very few truly honest salesmen, of ANYTHING, in the whole country. It could be kind of like a second career for you, in case you ever get tired of the science business:)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Sounds like you just hired a bad coach for the first time around.

I would take a harder look at masters groups in your area. Talk with the coaches. Most of them I've been in have beginners lanes with people just learning like yourself, all the way up to people with AG world records. There should be a spot for you somewhere there.

I would ask if they would allow you to drop in once or twice before committing, so you can get a feel for it and meet the coaches. The masters swimming world, I found, is very friendly, inclusive, and encouraging.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

I'd highly recommend forgetting the suggestion you need to be better/fitter than you are to join a Masters group. I promise you are not going to die if you research a good group and show up and dive in! I have never once met a triathlete in my sphere who said 'man I sure regret joining a Master group they made me slower." If you are set on getting individual lessons and swimming alone I am certain there are some proven and reputable coaches in the SF area.

Here is a listing of USMS clubs by state. Highly encourage it good luck and enjoy your swimming!


http://www.usms.org/links/usmsclubs.php

Been there, my technique was bad so I couldn't easily improve swim fitness and my swim fitness was bad so I couldn't spend as much time on technique.

My answer has just been to swim more with limited masters coaching, and accept the fact that compared to 90% of the masters class, I suck. I have made improvements to breathing and timing and form that I could never have made without months of increasing swim fitness, but there was never a 10second/100 tip from a coach, just slow improvement.

So IMO it is both, people who say you should just swim more or push through a wall might be neglecting the fact that a debilitating technique issue (for me I wasn't timing the breath properly, really hurting me, but something natural swimmers probably never consider) that needs addressed. On the other hand, it is hard to address issues outside of the pool.

I second the "find a new coach." It's silly to just swim more if you're using poor form. Also check out total immersion coaches, and make sure you get someone that will film your stroke and show it back to you.

Talk to the Master's coach. Our local Masters has a beginner lane, intermediate lane etc.... One guy in the beginner lane has only been swimming for a month. Like you he is very fit, but really just does not know how to swim properly. He gets easier workouts, more drills and limited extra help.

Don't be too quick to dismiss group lessons. I hadn't swum since my required gym class freshman year of high school and was back at the Y 5 years ago taking lessons. Yes, there were people in my group who didn't want to let go of the wall, but a good instructor will be able to separate skill levels pretty easily and prescribe drills and workouts accordingly. There was at least one other woman in my class who was also training for her first tri.

The good news is if you are persistent you will improve pretty quickly. In addition to my swim lessons once a week I got to the pool on my own 1-2 times per week. When I re-started I couldn't do 25 meters without rest, but pretty soon that became 50, then 100, then 500. You already have a good cardio base so that will help.

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http://mediocremultisport.blogspot.com

First of all, as a swim coach of all most 20 years, let me apologize for people that call themselves swim coaches but don't live up to the swimmers expectations. Unfortunately, good swim coaches are few and far between. With that said, I agree with some of the other suggestions to seek out another person to coach you, whether that be a Masters Program coach or a swim coach at the local Y. It should be someone you are comfortable with. I would also recommend that if you find a qualified coach, that you only listen to them regarding your stroke. Swimming can be like golf, when you arrive at the pool, every Tom, Dick, and Harry want to tell you what you need to do, just like when teeing it up at the golf course. If you succumb to suggestions from every person you meet, you will not be sure what you are supposed to be doing. Trust your coach! You should discuss your goals with them so they know what you want to achieve, i.e. be comfortable swimming 1.5k in open water etc. That gives a coach a perspective on what type of improvement you hope to achieve and in what time frame. With that said, swimming is like any other sport, it requires practice to reach your goals. For many talented runners or cyclists, learning something new that does not come easy can be frustrating. I would recommend starting with measurable, attainable goals so that you can track your progress. If that means 20 x 25's and 10 x 50's with significant rest in between each one, at least you will be going home with several things.... 1000 yards swum, how much rest was required, and how long did it take me to swim each distance on average. From that, you can increase speed, decrease rest, increase volume, increase reps etc. and see progress. I agree with many responses on this forum that improving at swimming takes time and practice. It is very encouraging that the first swim coach did say your form was good. I would assume from that comment that you don't have serious flaws in your stroke. I wish you luck in your journey.

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Start slow and taper off....

We disagree. Neither comes before the other: form and fitness, fitness and form. I've rarely seen a swimmer so helpless that they needed to "get the basics down" before proceeding to improvement their fitness.

I disagree and would agree with the other posters above that recommend a new coach. If you have to take a 1min breather after only 50m and you're in otherwise good shape, it's silly to keep swimming without improving form---form/technique is clearly the limiter.