Latex Tubes, Stan's rim tape and Michelin Pro4 tires - Minimal Loss of Tire Pressue

Jul 29, 14 7:16

Post #1 of 15 (3521 views)

Just an observation - nothing earth shattering.

Set up a pair of wheels several weeks ago with latex tubes and noticed that they have not exhibited the regular loss of tire pressure I normal get when using latex tubes. Used Velocity A23 rims, 2 wraps of Stans rim tape (22 wide, I think) and Michelin Pro4 tires. They are holding air as least as well as I would expect from wheels with butyl tubes with cloth rim strips.

I suspect that its the airtight Stans rim tape and tubeless compatible rim/tire interface of the Velocity A23 rims that is preventing the latex tubes from losing air.

Anyone else noticing anything similar when using tubeless rims and airtight rim strips?

David K

Re: Latex Tubes, Stan's rim tape and Michelin Pro4 tires - Minimal Loss of Tire Pressue [DavidK] [ In reply to ]

Jul 29, 14 7:35

Post #2 of 15 (3498 views)

Nice find. I had been wondering about that sort of setup with our Zipp 303 Firecrest wheelsets but have been to busy to give it a try. Kind of related but in another forum mostly dedicated to mountain bikes, there are posts about using 3M Scotch 8898 Tape as a less expensive alternative to the 'Stans' branded tape.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Latex Tubes, Stan's rim tape and Michelin Pro4 tires - Minimal Loss of Tire Pressue [DavidK] [ In reply to ]

Jul 29, 14 8:02

Post #3 of 15 (3473 views)

DavidK wrote:

Just an observation - nothing earth shattering.

Set up a pair of wheels several weeks ago with latex tubes and noticed that they have not exhibited the regular loss of tire pressure I normal get when using latex tubes. Used Velocity A23 rims, 2 wraps of Stans rim tape (22 wide, I think) and Michelin Pro4 tires. They are holding air as least as well as I would expect from wheels with butyl tubes with cloth rim strips.

I suspect that its the airtight Stans rim tape and tubeless compatible rim/tire interface of the Velocity A23 rims that is preventing the latex tubes from losing air.

Anyone else noticing anything similar when using tubeless rims and airtight rim strips?

David K

I find my tubes leak less air when they have sealant in them. Never noticed anything from just rim tape.

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Re: Latex Tubes, Stan's rim tape and Michelin Pro4 tires - Minimal Loss of Tire Pressue [DavidK] [ In reply to ]

Jul 29, 14 8:34

Post #4 of 15 (3444 views)

Anyone else noticing anything similar when using tubeless rims and airtight rim strips?

No. The tire itself would need to be airtight, and I don't use Michelins.

Re: Latex Tubes, Stan's rim tape and Michelin Pro4 tires - Minimal Loss of Tire Pressue [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]

Jul 29, 14 8:38

Post #5 of 15 (3438 views)

Ever notice any "weeping" of sealant from otherwise apparently intact latex tubes? What kind of sealant u using?

Coach at KonaCoach Multisport

Re: Latex Tubes, Stan's rim tape and Michelin Pro4 tires - Minimal Loss of Tire Pressue [Terra-Man] [ In reply to ]

Jul 29, 14 8:57

Post #6 of 15 (3424 views)

Terra-Man wrote:

Ever notice any "weeping" of sealant from otherwise apparently intact latex tubes? What kind of sealant u using?

I have actually. I just started using sealant late last year after Kona so don't have a ton of experience but yes it is a bit concerning that I have found the inside of the tire and outside of the tube to be moist despite no holes. I have used stans now, and conti revo, and just got some bonty TLR. The conti revo is the stuff I noticed was weeping, but the only time I used stans was at IMAZ last year and I let the tires tubes sit for 6 months before checking them and it was all dried up by then so I couldn't really check. What sealant are you using?

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Re: Latex Tubes, Stan's rim tape and Michelin Pro4 tires - Minimal Loss of Tire Pressue [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]

Jul 29, 14 9:08

Post #7 of 15 (3410 views)

Used the Caffelatex which weeped. Just ordered some Orange and plan to use it for Louisville...and hopefully Kona! So far this season and Kona last year were sealant free

Coach at KonaCoach Multisport

Re: Latex Tubes, Stan's rim tape and Michelin Pro4 tires - Minimal Loss of Tire Pressue [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]

Jul 29, 14 9:30

Post #8 of 15 (3395 views)

I popped a spoke and wore through the sidewall of my tire (rubbing on the seat stay). Latex tube blew and I did notice there was some dampness inside the tire. I was using a Vittoria latex tube with Orange Seal.

Never thought there was a reason for concern about this. Other than maybe it is an indication that the sealant is drying up.

/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

Re: Latex Tubes, Stan's rim tape and Michelin Pro4 tires - Minimal Loss of Tire Pressue [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]

Jul 29, 14 12:03

Post #9 of 15 (3357 views)

kjmcawesome wrote:

I popped a spoke and wore through the sidewall of my tire (rubbing on the seat stay). Latex tube blew and I did notice there was some dampness inside the tire. I was using a Vittoria latex tube with Orange Seal.

Never thought there was a reason for concern about this. Other than maybe it is an indication that the sealant is drying up.

Good to know. I was actually going to post sometime to see if anyone else was seeing weeping as well so I am glad it was brought up. I certainly feel better about it now.

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Re: Latex Tubes, Stan's rim tape and Michelin Pro4 tires - Minimal Loss of Tire Pressue [ms6073] [ In reply to ]

Jul 29, 14 15:09

Post #10 of 15 (3308 views)

ms6073 wrote:

Nice find. I had been wondering about that sort of setup with our Zipp 303 Firecrest wheelsets but have been to busy to give it a try. Kind of related but in another forum mostly dedicated to mountain bikes, there are posts about using 3M Scotch 8898 Tape as a less expensive alternative to the 'Stans' branded tape.

That's interesting, I'm going to have to look into that. Although, Stan's is like $15/roll and that leaves extras after double wrapping 2 wheels.

On wider rims, the 21mm fits really nice & works great w/ latex tubes. Big fan.

Re: Latex Tubes, Stan's rim tape and Michelin Pro4 tires - Minimal Loss of Tire Pressue [DavidK] [ In reply to ]

Jul 29, 14 18:55

Post #11 of 15 (3260 views)

DavidK wrote:

Just an observation - nothing earth shattering.

Set up a pair of wheels several weeks ago with latex tubes and noticed that they have not exhibited the regular loss of tire pressure I normal get when using latex tubes. Used Velocity A23 rims, 2 wraps of Stans rim tape (22 wide, I think) and Michelin Pro4 tires. They are holding air as least as well as I would expect from wheels with butyl tubes with cloth rim strips.

I suspect that its the airtight Stans rim tape and tubeless compatible rim/tire interface of the Velocity A23 rims that is preventing the latex tubes from losing air.

Anyone else noticing anything similar when using tubeless rims and airtight rim strips?

David K

latex tubes leak air as we all know. if you plug up the exit by creating some hermetic seal around the tube with rim strip + tire, then the air is still escaping the latex tube and is trapped in the space between tube and tire/rim strip. the air isn't magically staying inside the tube.

i don't believe you have changed anything about the ability of the *tube* to hold air.

Re: Latex Tubes, Stan's rim tape and Michelin Pro4 tires - Minimal Loss of Tire Pressue [tetonrider] [ In reply to ]

Jul 29, 14 20:48

Post #12 of 15 (3237 views)

tetonrider wrote:

DavidK wrote:

Just an observation - nothing earth shattering.

Set up a pair of wheels several weeks ago with latex tubes and noticed that they have not exhibited the regular loss of tire pressure I normal get when using latex tubes. Used Velocity A23 rims, 2 wraps of Stans rim tape (22 wide, I think) and Michelin Pro4 tires. They are holding air as least as well as I would expect from wheels with butyl tubes with cloth rim strips.

I suspect that its the airtight Stans rim tape and tubeless compatible rim/tire interface of the Velocity A23 rims that is preventing the latex tubes from losing air.

Anyone else noticing anything similar when using tubeless rims and airtight rim strips?

David K

latex tubes leak air as we all know. if you plug up the exit by creating some hermetic seal around the tube with rim strip + tire, then the air is still escaping the latex tube and is trapped in the space between tube and tire/rim strip. the air isn't magically staying inside the tube.

i don't believe you have changed anything about the ability of the *tube* to hold air.

Exactly how much air would you posit is in "the space between tube and tire/rim strip," but not in the tube? Why would you want to make such a distinction anyway?

Re: Latex Tubes, Stan's rim tape and Michelin Pro4 tires - Minimal Loss of Tire Pressue [corneliused] [ In reply to ]

Jul 29, 14 21:05

Post #13 of 15 (3229 views)

corneliused wrote:

tetonrider wrote:

DavidK wrote:

Just an observation - nothing earth shattering.

Set up a pair of wheels several weeks ago with latex tubes and noticed that they have not exhibited the regular loss of tire pressure I normal get when using latex tubes. Used Velocity A23 rims, 2 wraps of Stans rim tape (22 wide, I think) and Michelin Pro4 tires. They are holding air as least as well as I would expect from wheels with butyl tubes with cloth rim strips.

I suspect that its the airtight Stans rim tape and tubeless compatible rim/tire interface of the Velocity A23 rims that is preventing the latex tubes from losing air.

Anyone else noticing anything similar when using tubeless rims and airtight rim strips?

David K

latex tubes leak air as we all know. if you plug up the exit by creating some hermetic seal around the tube with rim strip + tire, then the air is still escaping the latex tube and is trapped in the space between tube and tire/rim strip. the air isn't magically staying inside the tube.

i don't believe you have changed anything about the ability of the *tube* to hold air.

Exactly how much air would you posit is in "the space between tube and tire/rim strip," but not in the tube? Why would you want to make such a distinction anyway?

i dunno, but my point was that changing rim tape doesn't change the material properties of the latex tube, so the tube still loses air at the same rate.

i didn't really see any tests run in the original post, so i don't know what his claims are about reduction in rate of air pressure loss.

for my own purposes, i've measured pressure loss by taking readings hourly over 24h, and doing the same thing just twice (@ 12 & 24h) and once (@ 24h) during the same period for various tire combinations (mainly so i'd know how to compensate for pressure loss between the time i inflate tires and the key moments of my events).

Re: Latex Tubes, Stan's rim tape and Michelin Pro4 tires - Minimal Loss of Tire Pressue [tetonrider] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 14 3:23

Post #14 of 15 (3185 views)

Tetonrider: I am not making any claims or conducting tests. Simply relating an observation. Maybe I got 2 extra thick Vittoria latex tubes or whatever. David K

Re: Latex Tubes, Stan's rim tape and Michelin Pro4 tires - Minimal Loss of Tire Pressue [DavidK] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 14 12:54

Post #15 of 15 (3112 views)

DavidK wrote:

Tetonrider: I am not making any claims or conducting tests. Simply relating an observation. Maybe I got 2 extra thick Vittoria latex tubes or whatever. David K

i'm not fussed either way, but saying that the combination doesn't lose air *is* a claim, and in your original post you wrote that you the latex tubes themselves aren't losing air.

i was just pointing out that even if what you write is true (it could be; i'd be curious for you to test the actual pressure loss), the latex tubes haven't changed so the air is just being trapped somewhere else.

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