Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Last week of swim training before first 2.4M. Need help
Quote | Reply
Sunday the 28th I'm going to do my first full distance swim event. 2.4 mile swim + 3.5 mile run at the Berkeley Marina. I've been doing the Guppy program, 3x per week, so the yardage has been about 2k each time. Tonight, mostly as a confidence builder, I did a straight 2,750. Finished in 46:52, or 1:44/100 pace. Slower than I wanted, but got done feeling like I could Have kept going.
The question: since I'm not gonna improve my form/technique in the last week, what are the key workouts I can do for the last week?
Quote Reply
Re: Last week of swim training before first 2.4M. Need help [mpderksen] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hmm ... I'm okay with a very small amount of recovery on swim vs other disciplines, so if I were you I'd do warmup plus 3 or 4 sets of (6x100 on 1:50 ---> 400 pull). you will build yardage, break up monotony, get some mild interval work in and some major distance. I'm assuming here that the swim is wetsuit legal.

_____________________________________
What are you people, on dope?

—Mr. Hand
Quote Reply
Re: Last week of swim training before first 2.4M. Need help [scofflaw] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
scofflaw wrote:
Hmm ... I'm okay with a very small amount of recovery on swim vs other disciplines, so if I were you I'd do warmup plus 3 or 4 sets of (6x100 on 1:50 ---> 400 pull). you will build yardage, break up monotony, get some mild interval work in and some major distance. I'm assuming here that the swim is wetsuit legal.


^^^^This workout.

I'd do 3 sets per workout this weekend and 2 sets during the week. Don't ramp up your yardage significantly the week before an event (anti-taper); you won't get any fitness, but could go into it fatigued.

3X 2K workouts/week is easily enough to complete a 2.4 swim; you'll be fine.


Good luck at Catfish....used to do it back when it was in Los Gatos.

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
Last edited by: Titanflexr: Aug 20, 16 1:11
Quote Reply
Re: Last week of swim training before first 2.4M. Need help [scofflaw] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
scofflaw wrote:
Hmm ... I'm okay with a very small amount of recovery on swim vs other disciplines, so if I were you I'd do warmup plus 3 or 4 sets of (6x100 on 1:50 ---> 400 pull). you will build yardage, break up monotony, get some mild interval work in and some major distance. I'm assuming here that the swim is wetsuit legal.

Thanks. The guppy warm-up that Dan wrote is 500yds. If I'm reading the right, each set is 1k, so 3 sets would equal 3,500. A solid hour or so. Probably just enough of a stretch that it would push, but not destroy me.
For the pull interval, use a buoy?
Quote Reply
Re: Last week of swim training before first 2.4M. Need help [mpderksen] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
43 x 100.
Quote Reply
Re: Last week of swim training before first 2.4M. Need help [mpderksen] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It's important in OW swimming to be able to surge for a bit. This helps you catch the swimmer or pack ahead so you can draft. It is also good to be able to start fast so you can escape the melee.

So, I'd do

100 w/u
100 fast (the "start fast" part), :10 rest
3 x 100 at goal pace
100 fast
2 x 200 at goal pace, :20 rest
100 fast
2 x 300 at goal pace, :30 rest
100 fast
200 c/d

That's a 2k swim for you.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: Last week of swim training before first 2.4M. Need help [mpderksen] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yes, that's exactly the thinking. I did this wkout once or twice a week during build for IM Boulder; I'm not fast (1:14 with terrible sighting) but I did come out of the water feeling fresh, and I think that the yards I put in with these sets helped a lot.

_____________________________________
What are you people, on dope?

—Mr. Hand
Quote Reply
Re: Last week of swim training before first 2.4M. Need help [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tigerchik wrote:
It's important in OW swimming to be able to surge for a bit. This helps you catch the swimmer or pack ahead so you can draft. It is also good to be able to start fast so you can escape the melee.

So, I'd do

100 w/u
100 fast (the "start fast" part), :10 rest
3 x 100 at goal pace
100 fast
2 x 200 at goal pace, :20 rest
100 fast
2 x 300 at goal pace, :30 rest
100 fast
200 c/d

That's a 2k swim for you.

Awesome. Thanks. Goal pace is a bit tricky. Since yesterday @ 1:44/100 I felt really comfortable, I think 1:40 is a fair target. But a "fast" 100 for me is only like 1:35. Maybe I'm still too new at this to have different gears. Last week, or of the workouts was 36 X 50 on :55. I was doing them in about :37 each.
After I survive next weekend, my next block with start to include more intervals and put some extra effort in them. I haven't been pushing my pace as much as I should, since I was just trying to get consistent yardage in, and was frankly a little lazy on the intensity.

No clue what my actual time will be, since there's no flip turns, saltwater, contact with others, wetsuit and questionable navigation. My last few 70.3s I was right at 40 min, but I've been swimming a LOT more this summer.
Quote Reply
Re: Last week of swim training before first 2.4M. Need help [mpderksen] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Awesome. Thanks. Goal pace is a bit tricky. Since yesterday @ 1:44/100 I felt really comfortable, I think 1:40 is a fair target.
So go for 1:40s

Quote:
But a "fast" 100 for me is only like 1:35.
All the more reason to practice swimming fast 100s.
Why are you gong :37 on a lot of 50s, and then 1:35 in a 100? :37 times two is 1:14, and while there should be some drop off, it not be 21 seconds.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: Last week of swim training before first 2.4M. Need help [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tigerchik wrote:
Quote:
Awesome. Thanks. Goal pace is a bit tricky. Since yesterday @ 1:44/100 I felt really comfortable, I think 1:40 is a fair target.
So go for 1:40s

Quote:
But a "fast" 100 for me is only like 1:35.
All the more reason to practice swimming fast 100s.
Why are you gong :37 on a lot of 50s, and then 1:35 in a 100? :37 times two is 1:14, and while there should be some drop off, it not be 21 seconds.

Total typo, sorry. 50s were :47, not :37. And on :55. (So each block of 12 was 11:00, and I did 3 "blocks"). Last week I also did 150s, and the pace was 1:38/100. And my 1K T-test Is 1:40. So my "fast" isn't that far from "all day" pace.
Totally agree I need more intensity and intervals. That's after next week. I feel I've gotten some endurance base for once. But there's always more work to do. I'll do your workout, and the other above, this next week.
Quote Reply
Re: Last week of swim training before first 2.4M. Need help [mpderksen] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I was NOT feeling ready. Missed a few swims due to some work travel. Today, I did the above recommended workout, 2 cycles, and really got in a groove. Got out feeling like I could just go all day. I think I'm about as ready as I can be. Tomorrow I'm doing the TigerChik workout, and Saturday off.
I'm posting a screenshot of the Garmin intervals. It's SO odd to me that the 400 with a pull buoy (no paddles) was nearly the same pace as the 150s. I did hold back a bit on the 150s, since I am shooting for a 1:40 pace, but still. Maybe this indicates a body position issue?
Michael
Last edited by: mpderksen: Aug 25, 16 15:35
Quote Reply
Re: Last week of swim training before first 2.4M. Need help [mpderksen] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
It's SO odd to me that the 400 with a pull buoy (no paddles) was nearly the same pace as the 150s. I did hold back a bit on the 150s, since I am shooting for a 1:40 pace, but still. Maybe this indicates a body position issue?

Yes. It indicates that your hips are sinking and/or that you aren't good at kicking. By "good at kicking" I don't necessarily mean being able to do fast standalone kicking, but rather it's possible that your legs are splaying (do you over-rotate? those two issues are often linked) or you are kicking from your knees, not your hips.

Think about pushing your chest down and keeping your nose pointed toward the bottom of the pool. Not right now, but after this race, try pulling with a band (basically, tie your ankles together). It is really hard, but you'll get the pulling stimulus you're after, and it teaches you to push your chest down and hence make your hips rise.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: Last week of swim training before first 2.4M. Need help [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tigerchik wrote:
Quote:
It's SO odd to me that the 400 with a pull buoy (no paddles) was nearly the same pace as the 150s. I did hold back a bit on the 150s, since I am shooting for a 1:40 pace, but still. Maybe this indicates a body position issue?


Yes. It indicates that your hips are sinking and/or that you aren't good at kicking. By "good at kicking" I don't necessarily mean being able to do fast standalone kicking, but rather it's possible that your legs are splaying (do you over-rotate? those two issues are often linked) or you are kicking from your knees, not your hips.

Think about pushing your chest down and keeping your nose pointed toward the bottom of the pool. Not right now, but after this race, try pulling with a band (basically, tie your ankles together). It is really hard, but you'll get the pulling stimulus you're after, and it teaches you to push your chest down and hence make your hips rise.

I'm going to take this as really good news: there is something I can correct to improve. Maybe a surface video for evaluation (please be gentle....). The odd thing is that I'm really pretty sure I can feel the air on my butt while I swim, but again, if I KNEW what I was doing, I wouldn't be asking for advice.

Doing your "fast 100s" workout tomorrow, then it's time for the event. Nervous/excited.

Michael
Quote Reply
Re: Last week of swim training before first 2.4M. Need help [mpderksen] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
I'm going to take this as really good news: there is something I can correct to improve. Maybe a surface video for evaluation (please be gentle....).

Sure.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: Last week of swim training before first 2.4M. Need help [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tigerchik wrote:
Quote:
I'm going to take this as really good news: there is something I can correct to improve. Maybe a surface video for evaluation (please be gentle....).

Sure.

Drafting question: I've done a half dozen 70.3 and dozen or more Olys, but always look for open lanes so I don't get mowed over. Is it like bike drafting (which I would never do.. ;). ) right behind someone, or more to the side? Probably gonna play it safe since this is my first long course swim, and I don't want to DNF because I caught a foot in the chin.
Quote Reply
Re: Last week of swim training before first 2.4M. Need help [mpderksen] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
you'll get a draft in either place, but behind is better.

For future reference: you can also draft off someone in the pool in the next lane over. There you'll want to be around their lower legs or hip area.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: Last week of swim training before first 2.4M. Need help [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tigerchik wrote:
you'll get a draft in either place, but behind is better.

For future reference: you can also draft off someone in the pool in the next lane over. There you'll want to be around their lower legs or hip area.

Gotcha. I am almost always the only one in the pool except for a few older people bobbing/walking around. Yesterday I had to share a lane, but it was a large woman doing 30 min of backstroke.... No real drafting practice there. But it's pretty nice to have my own lane every day, and sometime 2 or 3.
Quote Reply
Re: Last week of swim training before first 2.4M. Need help [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tigerchik wrote:
It's important in OW swimming to be able to surge for a bit. This helps you catch the swimmer or pack ahead so you can draft. It is also good to be able to start fast so you can escape the melee.

So, I'd do

100 w/u
100 fast (the "start fast" part), :10 rest
3 x 100 at goal pace
100 fast
2 x 200 at goal pace, :20 rest
100 fast
2 x 300 at goal pace, :30 rest
100 fast
200 c/d

That's a 2k swim for you.

I did the above yesterday. I was shocked at the "fast" 100s. 1:21-1:25 each. Okay, so not exactly "fast", but it does tell me I'm just slogging along too much of the time. I screenshotted (is that a word?) the results. I was shooting for about a 1:40/100 race pace, and pretty much nailed it. Forgot the lap button on interval #5, but whatever.
I'm feeling ready. Thanks for the advice.
Quote Reply
Re: Last week of swim training before first 2.4M. Need help [mpderksen] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
I was shocked at the "fast" 100s. 1:21-1:25 each. Okay, so not exactly "fast", but it does tell me I'm just slogging along too much of the time.

Most triathletes are.
Spend more time swimming at that pace, and doing something like 20 x 100 on 1:30 - 1:35.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: Last week of swim training before first 2.4M. Need help [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tigerchik wrote:
Quote:
I was shocked at the "fast" 100s. 1:21-1:25 each. Okay, so not exactly "fast", but it does tell me I'm just slogging along too much of the time.

Most triathletes are.
Spend more time swimming at that pace, and doing something like 20 x 100 on 1:30 - 1:35.

Thanks again for the help. It went FANTASTIC! 2nd in AG (out of 2, but whatever....). Water was warmer than I expected. Completely comfortable. I got left by the pack, so within 500 yds I had clear water and got into a solid rhythm. The course was a little short, 4K total, but both laps ended up right at 36. So my swim time was 1:12 @ 1:51/100 pace. Slower than "goal" but considering this was my first, I got no complaints. The Garmin map show I went just a bit off course, same place, both laps. Sighting that leg was rough for some reason. Run pace was only 9:26/mile, and again, that wasn't my target, but I ran/jogged the whole thing and resisted any walking at all.
I went into this to become a more consistent and confident swimmer. Primary goal accomplished! I know there's real work to do, but I signed up, trained, and got it done. Totally content with the day.
Thanks a lot for the last minute help.

Michael
Quote Reply
Re: Last week of swim training before first 2.4M. Need help [mpderksen] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Glad to hear a positive report. Congratulations!

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply