Maybe, maybe not. It all depends on fit. If it fits around your shoulders tight with no wrinkles then probably, if it doesn't then, from what I have heard, it could cost you time. I am getting mine today and hopefully it fits well but even if there are a few wrinkles I will be happy with it, as long as not too many, because of the added sun protection.

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Twitter - Instagram

The M2 Tri Skin is the most consistently fast tri suit we've tested. I can't give you the exact numbers from clients who've tested, but the overwhelming majority of those who have tested see, on a rough average, a 6-9 watt advantage over other sleeved tri suits. The advantage over sleeveless tri suits can be, of course, even greater.

As usual, your personal results could be better or worse depending mostly on how any suit fits you. The only way to absolutely be sure is to test. With all the aero testing we've done, I've come to be less and less comfortable making any definitive statements about the aero benefits of just about anything; however, the M2 is one of the few products I feel comfortable recommending if you can't test. It's just really good.

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Thank you Jim,

Does any of your test suggest the aero difference between one piece vs two piece suit?

Also, did you test Evade vs Synthe helmet by any chance? Do they have the same aero?

Jim,

What about the Castelli Body Paint SR Tri suit which is similar in construction to the LG Course M2?
Or the Castelli Free San Remo SS?

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It's difficult to provide numbers as there are so many different suits on so many different body shapes. The number of pieces isn't important, it's covering your shoulders and upper arms with a proper fitting suit...that's the key.

It's fairly common to see a 10+ watt gain going from sleeveless to sleeved.

No data vs the Evade and Synthe that I can release. I would say, though, that the more vents an aero road helmet has, the more susceptible it will be to increased drag from a change in head position. By this I mean, some well-vented aero road helmets are very good when in a traditional road position, but perhaps not as good when in an aero position and not looking so far up the road.

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

I'm curious to hear opinions on the short sleeve suits and olympic distance races in general. Most of the events i do are wetsuit legal, if the fit is right on a short sleeve suit like the M2, is the time gained worth pulling up the top in t1 for an olympic distance event?

Very good when it's good, but seems to be less consistent athlete-to-athlete.

Interestingly with the Castelii tri stuff...I can't always predict an outcome just by looking at it on you. For many suits, I can look at the way it fits you in your aero position and tell you with a fair amount of certainty whether or not it will be faster (how much faster is another story). Not so with Castelli. Sometimes what looks great tests poorly, but other times it doesn't look that great, but actually tests quite well.

That's how it goes sometimes - some things (not just Castelli suits) just make you shake your head. You don't always understand why something works or doesn't. It's why, I believe, aerodynamicists are so humble...they've been wrong so many times they've learned not to make predictions. Wait for the data!

With all that, Castelli stuff is excellent and fast for a lot of people. How's that for a non-answer answer?

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

haha I figured that would be the response

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Any idea 10w gain over 40km equals to how many seconds for an average guy?

Sorry to go off-topic a little but have you had good luck with testing the Pearl Izumi Elite In-r-cool [sleeved] tri jersey? I searched the forum but didn't find any info.

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Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram

Haven't tested it yet, so no data.

As to the other question from the original poster - too many variables for me to predict your time savings. I would need to know a lot more about you.

Off to do some work. I won't likely be able to post for the rest of the day (I have no clue how some people find so much time to post on this, or any, forum).

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

40 seconds

Rule of thumb 50g of drag = 5w = 0.5sec/km. So, as James posted above, 40seconds.

Wow wow

In addition to Jim's testing, I put this suit in the Specialized tunnel as well. It bested (albeit within the accuracy of the tunnel - only 1w) the PI Octane, which was/is the gold standard here. It's a FAST suit.

I have both the two piece and the one piece. I have not tested the two piece, but based on how they both fit (me, anyway), I'd be shocked if there was a meaningful difference between the two.

I'd actually bet that for many (most?) people, the two piece might even be faster, since it's easier to get the fit right (like, if, for example, you need to mismatch top/bottom sizes) or if you are relatively tall for how much you weigh (like me) or a relatively short for how much you weigh, where the overall length of the one piece might be a factor.

The LG suit was equal (well, 1w faster) to the PI suit at both 0 and 10deg yaw in the tunnel, which is important. Some suits do worse at higher yaws.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

 
That's great information!
Do you have any test result in synthe and evade? Especially the 'head down TT' position.
I have a feeling from Jim's comments that evade is a better TT option. Would you mind comment on that?

Jordan,
How is the fit on the top? I know you and I are similar in height, but you are certainly thinner. I'm trying to decide on whether to get the M or S. For reference, I'm 6'1", 168 lbs (broad shoulders).

Thanks

Why would you have to stop and pull up the suit in a wetsuit legal race? Just wear the suit under your wetsuit already on and ready to go. The only time you have to "pull it up" is in wetsuit ILLEGAL races where no sleeves of any kind can be used. Thats why Swim skins are sleeveless and why some pros have to do this at wetsuit illegal races.

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

I guess i had heard a few people mention having the sleeves up negatively affected their swims. So i assumed it would be best to have pulled down for the swim, but good point about not needing to pull it down on a wetsuit legal swim...

It took me a minute to put it together too!! That's the beauty of ST ... sorry if I came off brash it wasn't the intent. We're always learning new stuff, that's why we congregate here!

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

Many have commented on the difficulty/time required of putting on the Aero sleeved tops in transition.....why not just leave them on for the swim (unzipped) to allow for improved flexibility during the swim??

Even under a wetsuit, you'll want to have the top down. The sleeves are tight and not at all cut for swimming.

In my experience, there are two kinds of sleeved suits:
- those that you can swim in comfortably with the sleeves up
- those that are very aerodynamic on the bike

And, so far, they SEEM to be mutually exclusive. If you can comfortably swim in a sleeved top, it's either a slow fabric/cut or too loose (making it slow).

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

I wear a medium. It is TIGHT. I tried a small, and it was no bueno.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Sleeved tri suits under a sleeveless wetsuit are illegal in WTC (Ironman) branded races under the 2015 rules. I think this is a new rule, at least for age-groupers. Rule 4.02(c): "A race kit may be worn underneath a wetsuit, but when using a sleeveless wetsuit, clothing covering any part of the arms below the shoulders is prohibited."

I have no idea why the rule exists -- if some people are wearing full-sleeve wetsuits, what's the unfair advantage for a short-sleeve tri suit under a sleeveless wetsuit?

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<The Dew Abides>