They should replace it. They broke it.

What did they offer to make it right? Certainly you shouldn't bear the entire cost of them breaking the rim.

Should you be upset? Probably not. But, if they don't make it right then maybe. And find new LBS.

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Suffer Well.

Yeah, they should definitely be paying full cost to replace. That is no way your fault and if they don't replace definitely need to change LBS

If they broke it out of negligence, then they should cover the cost of a replacement rim.

If the rim broke because it's worn out, like with a cracked eyelet, then it's on you.

This. I would clarify with the LBS exactly what happened. LBS can't be responsible for everything and anything. Sure, if they run something over with a fork lift then they should make you right. But there aren't enough details in the OP to know. Maybe it's a manufacturing issue, your LBS called to ask HED about it and it's either out of warranty or HED refuses to accept responsibility...hence the $600 quote? Can't put the LBS on the hook for that.

Need more information.

They told me it was because "Hed rims have to be drilled a certain way for a PowerTap." They said they didn't realize this, and when they were tightening up the spokes, the carbon fairing cracked.

I don't know if this is true or not, but I figure since it already had a PowerTap on it, for about the last 10 years ( used very little… Most of my training is done on cheaper wheels), it shouldn't be an issue. Would switching from a wired, to a wireless hub be that big of a difference?

I agreed with above, that it's not their fault unless they caused it through negligence. They wouldn't be responsible if they exercised due care and it broke (say, because it was worn or something). But in this case, them not realizing how to properly do the job they were doing is NOT an excuse. If they don't know how to do something and break your equipment, it's on them for a full replacement.

At least they were honest; the root cause is negligence and they owe you a rim.

I would be asking for a replacement rim if that were the case. You took the rim to them relying on their knowledge and expertise (otherwise you would have done it yourself). Their knowledge was lacking, and as a result, they damaged your property. Really no different than if you took your 8 year old car into a mechanic and he ruined your engine because he wasn't exactly sure about how to work on it. The fact that the car (or in your case the rim) was used does not make it okay to pass the bill onto the customer.

If the LBS mechanic was not familiar with how to lace a PT hub into a wheel, or was not aware that there were or could be different requirements from standard road hubs...he shouldn't have taken on the work.

Ask yourself what would happen if you broke one of their rims while in their store shopping for rims ... Would they just let you walk away? Would they charge you full retail? Give you a break and charge you cost? Anyway you look at it you'd be leaving with a lighter wallet and therefore they should be subject to that same consequence. In addition they basically told you

"We didn't following the procedure as per the manufacturer" /endgame

I'm sure you have a relationship with these guys and you don't want to come off as a dickhead/douchebag but the fact remains, they broke your wheel which you entrusted them with thus they are responsible for eating the cost. Be diplomatic but firm that they are responsible for that $600 or a reasonable solution you'll accept.

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

It seems fair that they would at least split the cost with you. Maybe you could get something aero?

You were hiring them for their expertise and part of that was their determining if the work could be done. Unless they told you up front that it might not be possible and was risky and you agreed they should try, an "oops, it didn't fit" is on them.

That being said, they are not liable for the full cost of a brand new wheel any more than if you took your 10 year old BMW to the shop and they wrecked the engine trying to jam in a part that did not fit, you'd get a shiny new 2016 BMW. But they do owe you the value of the used wheel you trusted them with. And, since the owner can get you a nice new rim at their cost for that amount and make the nimrod mechanic who broke yours build it up for free, there is no reason everyone should not walk away from this reasonably happy. .

Just curious, but what does 'drilling' have to do with replacing a spoke? Perhaps it's just a miscommunication, but the drilling part should have already been done before the original PT was installed (Yes/No? what am I missing).

I don't know what the outcome would be on this but I am curious to know. Hopefully it works out favourably for you. The Alps is a pretty old wheel and hasn't been made for years, so I wonder how age / design of the wheel has factored in.

The drilling is through the fairing of the rim.

It is very unlikely that they broke the rim out of negligence. Get them to sell you a new rim at wholesale. Get a Belgium c2+.

They are charging you money to relace the rim. They should know what they are doing. While I feel sorry for them, it's still their fault. They are supposed to be professionals. You took it to them because you're not a wheel builder, but they are.

Now they should rePlace the rim, not just reLace it.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

My best guess is if the new PT is a larger diameter, they'd need to drill the spoke holes in the fairings out a bit to account for the steeper angle of the spoke from the rim to the hub.

Either way, they should replace it. If they have some service plan mumbo jumbo that says they can't be held liable, I'd find another shop and make sure they know you're not happy.

everyone knows that when you drill holes in something, it becomes lighter, but does not lose strength. i'm sure that the lbs was just trying to help the OP. you know, rotational weight and all.

I had a shop explode my rear rim and tire on my MTB two days before a race. They were like, "uh, we'll give you a loaner for the week." And I was like, " by a week, you mean permanently?" To which they said "yes?"
Took my bike, new rim and tire, and didn't go back.

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mmm-mmm-Momo Charms
Handmade beverage charms, jewelry, and miscellanea
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love this. hahahaha

Owner of LBS was telling me why he loved MTBers and road bikers not as much. MTBers will buy a bike, go ride the hell out of it, break something, and then come in laughing, talking about a crazy ride, and then pay to have the bike fixed. A roadie or triathlete will buy a bike, ride it for 8 years, have a spoke break, and then come in complaining and wanting it fixed for free.

That is not what happened here. You brought them a wheel with Powertap, and asked for a new Powertap hub to be laced to the rim. I don't think they had the responsibility to research the rim or if the rim should have ever been laced up to a Powertap. If they laced it incorrectly, that would be one thing. In this case the rim never should have had a Powertap laced to it. How were they to know, since it already had been built like this. I would try to talk them to wholesale costs, and no more than the initial labor charge, and be happy. This really isn't their fault.

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"Remember: a bicycle is an elegant and efficient tool designed for seeking out and defeating people who aren't as good as you."

--BikeSnobNYC

I will say this in the shops defense: those alps rims were pretty prone to cracking at the rim bed. It could be that your rim was on the way out and relacing it was enough stress to cause problems.

Now, offering the solution(full cost) they did is pretty shitty, and I would expect them to come up with a happy medium at the least, but lots of people are assuming it's negligence. It might not have been, those rims weren't the best rims in the world.

So where are you getting this "rim should never have had a Powertap" stuff? Especially considering the wheel had one to start with.

If you take your car to a shop and ask them to install a part, you expect them to install it properly, accessing the manufacturer's instructions and/or service manuals if needed. If they can't, either due to the part being incompatible, or them not being comfortable with the installation, you expect them to tell you. You don't expect them to crack your block because they didn't read the torque specs when replacing the flywheel.

The shop breaking something because they didn't bother to check fit and proper assembly is the shop being negligent, IMO.

For the record, I didn't post to trash the shop, just to get a general idea what would be a reasonable expectation for how to resolve the situation without one side or the other getting taken advantage of.

On one hand, I brought them a working, functional rim, and now I don't have that. It's an older rim, but not extremely heavily used (I bought it from a friend that lost interest in bikes as he got older). The rim was only used by him, and me, for race days...day to day stuff is done on a less "exotic" set of wheels. I'm not a bike mechanic, and only know enough about lacing up wheels to know that it's a job for a shop, not something I'd try myself. They're a pretty well known shop, heavily involved in triathlon and higher end bikes and gear, and if the new hub and wheel were incompatible, they probably should have had some idea, or figured it out before they started tightening everything up to the point of failure. I don't know what their experience with Hed wheels is, but they had a lot of similar Zipp wheels being worked on (that I saw), so it's not like they're unfamiliar with these type of wheels.

On the other hand, the wheel was older, and it is possible that the new Powertap was of a different enough configuration that it wouldn't work with the wheel. I realize it's practically impossible for a manufacturer or shop to know every possible combination of compatible wheels/hubs, and am not jumping to the conclusion that they did anything wrong. I also realize that these things do happen, and it's not worth getting blown out of shape over...life goes on.

I don't want to go in expecting the sun and the moon, but also don't want to go out of pocket for the full cost of a new rim if they do have some fault here. I figure the consensus here would be a good ballpark for what I should expect them to do to fix the problem. It may well be it's my problem, and I should man up and buy a new rim; it may be that they screwed up and owe me a new rim. I just don't want to go in with the wrong expectation or pay for something that's their fault.

I'm simply looking for a general idea of what's "fair" to expect. One way or the other.

Second post from the original poster:



If it was drilled incorrectly for a Powertap, it never should have had the original Powertap.

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"Remember: a bicycle is an elegant and efficient tool designed for seeking out and defeating people who aren't as good as you."

--BikeSnobNYC