Good point about the old shoes! I know folks don't want to try something new on race day, but, shoes that are that old should have got replaced at least six months before the big dance.

Given the almost total lack of customer service in most running shoe stores these days, it's not surprising to me that people are running in the wrong shoes or running in ill-fitting shoes. Heck, I probably am. Or could be. Typically, I pick up a shoe at the store, find someone to help(?) me, ask for a size, and that's it. The good stores will let me run in the shoe outside, but nobody watches me, and nobody gives any feedback.

The worlds best amateur triathletes are racing in Kona. If they're in the wrong shoes, I think retailers bear most of the blame. Or maybe shoe fitting isn't as sexy as $300 bike fits.

The real simple test for you in finding good fit is this:

1. Put the shoe on but do not tighten or tie the laces.
2. Run around the store or if they let you run outside.
3. If the heel slips it's not right for you.
4. If the heel doesn't slip that's good now you are looking for things that will pinch.
5. If nothing pinches (Fits too tight on your instep or to narrow in the toebox ) then using your thumb and index finger pinch the vamp or top mesh over your forefoot. If you can get a good grab on that vamp it's probably not a good fit either.

Yesterday in a brand I won't call out that runs wide I saw the forefoot of shoes buckling at flex. That mean's there is too much room and most likely the foot is sliding dramatically inside the shoe.

If shoes don't fit the foot well being too tight or too big around the foot the midsole is doing very little to help you out. We heard people literally sliding their foot on the pavement and saw what looks like from our vantage as people fighting against the shoe to move forward. Most of this is due to shoes that don't fit properly. This race is hard enough (as is any Ironman) there is no point in making it harder. Poor fit on the run is miserable.

Personally I have a skinny foot. I can run in virtually any shoe on a day to day basis. I adjust with socks or adjust my head around the poor fit. But when it comes to strapping on a number I will no compromise Fit.

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Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

For me, I have high arch and thin foot, I don't think feel the Clifton is that soft. I've been running in it for 200 miles so far. It feels like my Kinvara's strangely enough, which I also run in. I run barefooted in both. My Hoka Stinson Tarmac, now that pair of shoes is ridiculously too soft, but I occasionally like that.

I have not felt like I'm medially rotating in those either. But I'm no expert.

I don't like racing in the HOKAs, because, for me, they don't drain very well, and get sloshy in the summer, with socks on or off. Also, they are not good with oder control, in my opinion, like other shoes.

I've been to the 'best' local running shoe stores and don't feel I've ever had a good fit. I think I end up trying every shoe in the place and picking the one that feels the 'least bad'. I have a narrow heel, wider forefoot, high arches (yet I'm told by the running shoe guys I over pronate) and not only is my big toe shorter than my second toe (i.e. Morton's foot) all 3 of my toes except my pinky toe are longer than my big toe. It is so frustrating shopping for shoes.

I feel for you. You have to do the best you can which is what everyone must do. To be honest what I saw yesterday is people compromising fit for a midsole feel and I am not a fan of that. It just makes for miserable running in these conditions and over this distance.

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Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

On the selling side of the equation, I think you're completely accurate; the trend I have noticed is definitely looking for midsole feel rather than the best combination of upper fit, midsole feel, etc. I think to some extent, that's where Brooks has knocked it out of the park: the try-on feel of their shoes gives the impression of a higher-quality shoe out of the gate.

I was watching and kinda curious as to the impact of elasticized laces on a lot of these shoes, as I've never really found a shoe that fits as well as it originally did with regular laces. For my full I was planning on taking the extra 30 seconds to tie my shoes the way I like, have a secure fit in the mid foot/heel and a little looser up in the forefoot. For a half I think it's a little easier to just roll with speed laces and fight the shoe a little bit.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

You obviously don't live in Madison. Endurance House and Fleet Feet here are extremely customer-oriented and have treadmill gait analysis and offer many [free] run clinics throughout the year. It's a shame you don't live near here-I think you'd be pleasantly surprised.

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Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram

It's not "new" if it's the exact same model/revision. So if you've trained in Kinvara 5's some of the time leading up to the race, getting a new pair of 5's wearing then 3 or 4 times won't kill you. Then you have a fairly new shoe to train in all winter and you can be reminded of you race every time you slide into them..

... or option 2, get a pair for only racing and only race in them except for short runs during taper.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

I agree with you on the Hokas. I wear the Stinson Tarmacs for long/easy runs but having seen a photograph of my right leg (my uber-pronating foot) in them I saw, not just felt the complete collapse of that lovely squishy sole. I wear the Kailua Tarmacs for anything quicker and will probably try a pair of Huakas later as my racing season nears.

Patti

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Patti in NJ

The local store I go to is great about this. They let you run outside, or on their indoor treadmill. They will watch you run and usually bring out 5 different shoes for the person to try on and take feedback on how each feels.

SDJ - I saw your suggestion for over-pronators and the clifton. In your opinion, are supinators better off with something more stable also?

In general, no you don't want more support you want less. We didn't see any good examples Saturday of any glaring supination. But I want to explain something just a bit further.

The stress of running a marathon off that much effort is incredible. Most people run with some sort of compromised form and in Kona it's called the Kona Shuffle. For many it's the entire run. We heard last night that 397 or so runners qualified for Boston on Saturday. If I put my perceived memory hat on that's probably equal to the number of athletes we saw with beautifully flawless powerful form. Everyone else was compromised by the effort. So in a compromised position, slight pronation becomes full on arch crashing "pain". In a compromised state "Supination" looks a bit more neutral. Now back to the original note. We saw a glaring number of really tired runners crashing in and "falling off" the platform in the Clifton. The majority of the blame is the state of the athlete but the incredible softness of the Clifton sure looks like it's just letting the foot do what it wants to do and it looks really painful and slow from my position on the sideline. We didn't see any of that in the Bondi or the Huaka. It's not because everyone running in those shoes qualified for Boston. It's because those shoes didn't further the compromised running form. In other words those athletes were just as tired but at least their toe off was still neutral. From that I deduct that light and soft is good to a point. Give up a bit in weight and soft feel and your run might feel better.

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Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

A bit off topic but as the resident running shoe geek do you know when the new DS Trainer 20 will be released?

DS Trainer usually updates Nov 1 / Jan 1. (Depends on whether it's an Asics Gold account or not), if my memory serves me correctly...

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

This is why I use Xtenex laces. You can control the feel at each point. Not just the generic speed lace uniform tightness. Check them out, they are really great. Pain to get into the shoe the first time around, but so nice to have total control on how tight or loose to make each row of laces.

Denise

Asics confirmed with me, the DS Trainer will be released January 1, 2015.

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Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

Sweet thanks for that. Hopefully they are better than the 19's which have disappointed me somewhat. I have seen a picture of them and they are very pretty (which is the main thing of course).

I was one of the people where the Clifton worked for me BUT the toe box was too tight in the correct size and I ended up with extensor tendonitis after one run :/ At least it was after my last race of the season.

It's amazing how... ignorant?... people are who fit running shoes to heel fit. This is a pet peeve of mine. I can't tell you how many times I've gone to a "good" running store to get fit, the salesperson brings out two or three shoes "oh these are perfect for you" and I have to say "the heel is too loose". The invariably look at me like I'm being difficult. Alas, it's tough for me to find a shoe with a wide toe box and a narrow heel.

x2 on the Xtenex. Best laces hands down.

Many times, people don't think about the last of a shoe too much, but sometimes a narrow heel and wide forefoot are often aspects of other foot dynamics- but can do better in a curve last. Next time you go to a store, ask them for the curve last shoes, rather than a cushioned shoe. This is a reason why the Hoka's and Altra's can be a "cushioned' shoe, but there is much more to it.

FYI- the Clifton is closer to a semi-straight last rather than a curve/semi curve. If you have a significant forefoot varus, a semi straight or straight last will be a difficult fit.

So if you did end up with some additional fatigue/stress of the longus, it could be a factor of the shoe last, or curvature of the sole. However, if your foot shape requires a curve last, and you need some pronation control, that can be difficult. This is when a rigid insole like the superfeet or sole work well.

Good shoes to look at are PI's and Zoot's (SDJ wanted to say this, but he's being professional)- they have a good midsole cushion and have a curve/semi curve. However, when you're talking full IM, you need to think about the mm of cushion- even a few additional mm make a difference.

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http://www.reathcon.com

Any thoughts on what these guys are doing? http://shoefitr.com/

I have no connection to them, and don't recall seeing them cited on ST. It seems they are going towards a platform business model, as in working with brands to better market towards online sales. With all due respect to keeping it local and supporting LRS, the momentum is moving towards more online sales every year.

Have you found anything? That ALSO is made in 14-15 US sizing?

well some of us have a big problem - would love to wear tighter fitting shoes but my neuroma rather disagrees with this course of action ... but i really appreciate the write up on it